This is our third guest post written by a London-based VC. To allow them to speak plainly without jeopardising their fund or their career in the small village that is the London VC scene, I’m allowing them to post anonymously. FYI, LondonVC is a genuine VC and TechCrunch Europe has met them face to face.
One of the biggest challenges for any investor (regardless of the stage/type of investment they target) and founders alike is hiring great talent. In early stage investing the team may be the single criteria upon which an investment decision is based (considering how many times when that’s all there is to go by) and even in later/growth stages, while the founding team has been historically crucial, bringing someone new in to help “get the company to the next level” can be the difference between investing or not.
Something I’ve realised and have to admit is that while obviously the absolute pool of talent is smaller here in the UK/Europe than it is in the U.S. (and that cannot be disputed nor is it anything more than a function of population) another factor. It is one which I keep hoping will chang, because if it doesn’t it threatens to make a small pool even smaller. And that is a cultural and behavioural issue: work ethic.
As anyone who’s ever been there or visited will attest, in Silicon Valley everyone is working *all of the time*.
And while this might seem unhealthy, not scalable, obsessive, manic or simply ridiculous, from an ecoystem perspective it’s basically unbeatable. If you want to build companes and ride the wave of innovation, it’s a 24/7 preoccupation — not just a lifestyle business. By contrast, I am in London-based startups’ offices all the time and I am gobsmacked when they are nearly empty by 6:30 PM.
Where is the sense of urgency? Where is the need for speed? Where is the competitive and insanely obsessive drive to “kick ass” and kill the competition, status quo or the incumbent corporates?
I understand the need for work-life balance and keeping things in perspective but from an investor point of view, I’m happier and have more confidence in future success if I see entrepreneurs working their asses off.
And don’t get me wrong, this doesn’t have to be “in the office”, but I used the office hours as one measurement. I’m simply talking about working at all — and just being online, responsive and present (twitter, IM, email, updates on websites, releases, pushes etc).
This is just my [likely unpopular] view, but in silicon valley the thinking is usually along the lines of “why can’t we get that done now” or “let me just finish this off now, while I can, before I go,” etc.
You have to remember that the culture there is “launch and iterate”. By contrast, European startups (not the good ones I might add) too often depend on an old fashioned version/release model. That’s nice for a good lifestyle – but it doesn’t create fast moving companies. And fast moving companies require people to nurture them 24/7.
By contrast what I observe here is more along the lines of “it can wait” or “what’s the problem if we take care of that tomorrow” or “no harm done, no big deal, the world won’t end” and “yes it’s in the queue”. I’m afraid to say this is a huge difference in attitude.
And it’s not about when or at what hours people are in their offices (or even working out of office). In Silicon Valley, even when folks aren’t strictly working or at work, they are still working. Even when they’re out clubbing, partying, eating dinner or just hanging out … They are working because everyone they’re hanging out with is in the industry and related to their work.
Your best friends are co-founders, competitors, business development partners, your lawyers or your event co-sponsors. You date, hook up with or marry your co-workers, your business development managers, your PR reps. It’s all incestuous and a very small-world and quite possibly incredibly unhealthy (although it’s clearly worked for many otherwise the valley would have collapsed by now in an earthquake of divource and law-suits).
But from an investment and knowledge-enhancing-viral-feeding point of view it’s hugely valuable. It’s like one massive petri dish. An uber-mega-corporation of startups where people might circulate between Google, Yahoo! Apple and other companies in between startups. But it keeps everyone going, thinking and buzzing about their work all the bloody time.
Instead, not only do we have different petri dishes for London startups, northern [UK] startups, Irish startups, German startups, eastern european startups etc, but we also have petri dishes for bootstrapped startups, startups funded by “the big VCs”, startups in mobile, startups in media, startups who are using agencies (btw, no startups use agencies in the valley), and companies who say they are startups but where no one’s really working very hard.
This also manifests itself in basic attitudes and assumptions regarding holidays and time off.
In the US the legal holiday entitlement is 10 holiday/vacation days per year, but to be honest, no one really knows for sure because no one checks. No one tracks it — and no one really ever takes any — unless they’re getting married or it’s a really, really, really big deal.
In silicon valley if people started tracking vacation days, they’d also have to track “comp time” (meaning what days off they’d be entitled to because they worked “overtime” or above-and-beyond the reasonable requirement) and in that case, everyone would have more days off than they’d know what to do with! In most cases, people take 1 week holiday a year or maybe 2 if you count end of the year holidays before or around the New Year.
By contrast here in the UK I’m well aware that the legal requirement is 20 days (4 weeks’ worth!) and *everyone* is keeping track — and actually taking them! In silicon valley this would be viewed as absurd and taking 4 weeks off every year would brand someone as a slacker full stop. Even subjective labels aside, think about the fact that the legal requirement establishes twice as much free time here per annum.
I am bracing myself for your comments, but trust me — If you’re annoyed because you’re working like a dog on the next great global success then I want to hear from you, meet you and invest. On the other hand, if you’re ticked off and you’re not working your ass off, well there you go — and enjoy your annual leave.
Having been one of the few Brits to have built a number of successful tech/Web startups and lead 2 large US Web businesses I hear what you are saying.
The Silicon Valley ecosystem is unique and cannot be replicated – I should know I ran one of their pinups! The UK and Europe need to find a way to take the keys to Silicon Valley success and embed it into Euro startups while optimizing Euro differences – more global minded, diverse and distributed.
I hope so anyway as I chose to develop my latest venture, blur Group, in London not the Valley. And there were good reasons why. We run at US pace but with Euro players – its a nice combination done right. Let’s see if the VC’s can keep up!
Dude,
You were fired from beenz.
Silicon valley didn’t want you Back.
Actually you were the one fired. I was headhunted to go run Tradaq – the billion dollar Silicon Valley pinup after taking Beenz thru its glory days.
U got the wrong guy/facts Dude!
Lets put a line under this once and for all. Philip did an amazing job bulding Beenz into a formidable machine with a market value in the hundreds of millions. After he left there were tons of sour grapes one complaint stands out in light of this article was that he worked the team too hard making them go on working off-sites, always pushing them to better results etc. Well he went off to his Silicon Valley trophy and you europeans got to do what you wanted at Beenz. Nice easy 9-6 hours. No more of those lifestyle interrupting off-sites. You changed the strategy – fired half the team . Bravo. End result you all ended up getting fired or the board let your contracts run out and the company ended up being sold. Well done Dude. Its been nine years – get a life.
and there was me thinking it was that embarrassing incident at customs…
I dunno about everyone else but since the start of our company 14 months ago I’ve been doing between 60 and 70 hrs a week. 4 days off.
8 hours seems waay to short to get anything done when there’s only a few of us.
(not looking for investment at the mo..)
Europe vs. United States comparisons don’t work well.
1. Europe is highly divided: by countries, by cultures.
2. Most of those countries have completely different dominant languages.
3. The United States is rooted in a culture of individuals starting with nothing and rising to the top. It’s a climb of our socioeconomic ladder through sheer motivation. You know: “land of opportunity” and “rags to riches.” The so-called “American Dream” once brought many a twinkle to many an eye — or the dream of that notion thereof, I should say. While not true for many people and often broken at times, that spirit still runs deep.
4. United States laws are more conducive to business. Cutthroat competition is encouraged. Our capitalism, markets, and profits surge through our veins, spilling red. (irony intended)
5. United States mentality often sees the world as its oyster.
Therefore:
US citizens feel they have more to gain by starting a business.
They can appeal to a much larger market right out of the gate. So it’s immediate access to a single nation that (mostly) speaks the same first language. Size, nationalistic inclinations which are obvious and natural, combined a culture of capitalism makes for entrepreneurs who feel (and are) more ‘empowered. That motivates people to “work.” And, again, when one’s mentality is seeing one’s country as dominant, over the world, it’s also easier to envision becoming a global success. That kind of dream tends to motivate US startups to the point where it doesn’t feel like work. It’s a sense of urgency and ubrideled potential.
Negatives:
Then there are other reasons like the fact the US provides less for its citizens. With abysmal minimum wage standards and the lack of social health insurance, many people are driven mad to feel like the only way they can feel secure is to make a lot of money… because in many respects that’s true. And many people feel the only way to self-worth and ‘being someone’ is to become rich. It compels people to only care about work. It’s a sickness. It’s a sickeness that has causes and cures. In other words, there too are many reasons why the US needs to become more like some European countries, lest it crumble in a cesspool of inhumanity and greed.
Bingo! You nailed it.
I think that London based VC can see only half of the EU while ignoring it’s Eastern part where real power and motivation sits.
Cultural difference of countries like Poland vs France or Germany is huge in terms of motivation to really kick ass and get back for all the years of communism.
One additional advantage of Eastern European based startups – it’s still less capital that you need to start the business.
Its precisely this attitude–that other people are entitled to the fruits of your labor (as in nationalized healthcare) and that enjoying the fruits of your labor is wrong and greedy, and seeing work and productivity as your foremost goal as inhumane,–that prevents Europe from rising up. Your best sector is finance, for good reason–its international. You’re right, the markets are opening, but there are still huge culture differences in the EU. Your state doles out a near-majority (if not majority) of your income to subsidize people who don’t work, or are too lazy to be independent. However, that culture is shrinking in Britain, at least. Compare Britain now to Britain pre-Thatcher. You guys are catching up. And we’re headed in the wrong direction.
“obviously the absolute pool of talent is smaller here in the UK/Europe than it is in the U.S. (and that cannot be disputed nor is it anything more than a function of population)”
if it’s a function of population it can be disputed fairly easily by comparing the population of Europe with that of the US and noticing which is larger. US population is rougly the same as that of Germany, France, Italy, UK and Spain combined.
Get off your high horse.
What pussy VC is so afraid that he hides behind an anonymous coward byline.
Perhaps if European VCs weren’t such pussies, and actually started putting some real money on the table, and not try to skim everything off with liquidation preferences and create an environment for the average employees to get rich like in the Valley, then maybe the average employee would actually start working like the Chinese.
European VCs are pussies, and just like a pussy, they want to blame the companies. No self respecting Valley VC would hide behind an anonymous post.
European VC need to start growing some balls as Valley ones or forget it.
+1. So true…
I don’t see you adding your name either to your comment.
This guys story was just filled with false facts and things that aren’t true.
The EU has a larger pop than the US.
there is no legal requirement of vacation days in the US.
Maybe that UK nanny state that takes care you when you refuse to do anything is causing everyone to feel there is no need to work hard to succeed.
Yeah socialism.
I think it is the case not only for the UK but continental Europe as well.
I worked in the UK and in mainland Europe after working in the US.
Main difference is the social rights and the perception of work and related compensation is the mean for affording a lifestyle. Whilst elsewhere in the emerging world and in the US , working is the compulsory activity to get somewhere in life.
Once here was one French guy told me, “we are working 35 hours a week whilst Americans and Chinese are sleeping that time and for rest working”. It is obvious that who will win in the long run.
So you think that working your ass off is ‘winning’?
If all you do is work, when exactly are you going to enjoy the fruits of said investment?
That is exactly the wrong mentality to have. Some of my friends decidedly worked nine-to-five. The company they founded had an exit in the order of hundreds of millions of dollars.
You have to decide if you work for a living of live for working, and who exactly is it that you are working for.
Well I don’t think I agree with this. We have been working day and night for the past year and half. I really don’t think it actually is possible to work any harder, given the only time we take off is for sleeping. I can’t remember the last time I took a “week-end” and when I take holiday to go see my family during summer, I go for 3 days. As for parties… well no time either, unless it’s a networking party.
I don’t think that’s very healthy and I certainly don’t intend to do this for the rest of my life, but until we are successful, it will certainly remain like this.
As a midlands based entrepreneur it annoys me too when offices in our building are empty at 6/7 o’clock on week days and dead at weekends. I feel that many people in my area really don’t get ‘it’.
I am throughly passionate about my businesses and the people I have working for me.
One of my businesses is currently in the process of raising £300 000 and despite not being a world changing amount of finance we are all working our backsides off (despite reading this!). I very rarely go “out” unless there is a genuine networking angle that may well lead to the investment we need.
I feel it is becoming too trendy to be an entrepreneur or start your own business and too many people are trying without fully commiting or understanding the sacrifices that will be needed.
Having grown up in ‘old’ media, which was deadline-focused, I’m still confused at the 9-5 mentality. I used to work through nights and weekends with colleagues regularly. And that was in well-established media businesses. Some designers and architects are made the same way.
Everyone’s gone soft.
Hi LondonVC,
Brace yourself for comments? It’s a simple truth that applies to any endeavour, not just a tech start-up. And, as an aside, surely you can spot a team of obsessives a mile off?
Fascinating insight – if not surprising. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone who is putting in a lot of money to a company to say… “My cash is on the line here, I want you to work your balls off.”
It’s the same thinking that says – “Entrepreneurs should never be allowed to take money off the table – it disincentivises them to get a return for my cash.” It’s about getting maximum value at any cost – and as the entity providing cash, that’s completely sensible!
That said, entities like the Founders Fund have shown that there are valid counterpoints to these arguments (allowing founders to take money allows them to alleviate short term financial pain that aligns them with long-term return value, rather than short term exit / pain relief).
I think the counterpoint to the holiday argument is – do you want someone working hard, smart – or both?
Working hard is no problem, but to achieve value with that time you need to keep your brain fresh – and you’d struggle to find anyone even in the Valley that doesn’t believe in the positive power of brain downtime. If you want those working in startups to be at the very top of their game – and you do – decompression time is very important, if for no other reason than creativity (an essential part of the startup problem-solving psyche) needs space and time to rev up. Who hasn’t had the experience of solving a particularly tricky problem in their dreams? Same principle.
On a separate note, I’d also argue that there’s a massive culture difference in the US vs UK in terms of employee benefits to facilitate the work culture – I am struggling to think of any UK internet companies / startups that provide food, healthcare, transport etc on the scale of Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. Working a 12 hour day in a sunny Silicon Valley office is not so bad when you have transport there and back, food all day and plenty of entertainment for breaks. Pull 12 hours in central London and you’ll likely have to make do with the Tube and Pret at most startups, I’d suggest.
Your post seems to be to be at least as much about the general culture of internet-dom here in London as it is about individual habits of startup workers, and on that front I certainly agree with you – we need more interaction, more mixing, more opportunities to get together at dedicated spots to party and network.
I say this, by the way, as someone who works 12 hours a day Monday-Friday with weekends as ‘Strategy Time’. I take a week in the summer to go somewhere and broaden my horizons, and a week at Christmas to see my family. I would hope my investors consider this fair value…
Work much past 6 or so and the dinner options reduce in central London reduce dramatically — many of the decent takeout places cater to the lunch crowd, so you’re left with dodgy kebab shops and fast foot. That’s no way to live. Better to head home where you can get a nice meal and work there if you must.
Guys, he’s having ‘dinner’ every day, did you hear that?
hehe.
That’s exactly what the article is about.
Are you saying that you allow yourself to eat sometimes?
That’s nothing.
*I* have been in Vietnam.
“obviously the absolute pool of talent is smaller here in the UK/Europe than it is in the U.S. (and that cannot be disputed nor is it anything more than a function of population)”
U.S. population: ~300 million
EU population: just under 500 million
And if you can’t manage to hire from most of the EU for a UK (or wherever) based company, you’re doing it wrong. I’ve done it, and so have others I know.
There’s tons of talent in the EU, a straight headcount of the EU vs. USA doesn’t really apply though. Silicon Valley has a massive concentration of engineering talent and investment capital in one place.
You definitely have a point but are generalising too much. I agree that in general European companies (English, French, Germans…) don’t work as hard as their US counterparts. Most European companies “work to live” whereas most Silicon Valley companies “live to work”.
However, there is a growing breed of young, hungry European startups coming out of Seedcamp and top UK universities (and other places I’m less familiar with) who have the ‘Silicon Valley’ mindset. Just look at Songkick, Playfire, Zemanta and some of the other young European startups who are seriously kicking ass.
2 years and 8 days ago, I wrote a guest post on the Seedcamp blog entitled “Silicon Valley is just a State of Mind”: http://j.mp/1Ltuym and I still stand by this.
I believe the challenge for European investors is to figure out which European startups have the ‘Silicon Valley mindset’ and do work all the time, do have a sense of urgency, do have a need for speed and do have obsessive drive to “kick ass”…and which ones want to clock off at 6pm to go home to a bottle of red.
As I say in my comments below, I think it’s just sour grapes that he hasn’t been invited to any of the parties
Totally agree with David’s comments. If you don’t think a Silicon Valley mindset exists in London you’re looking in the wrong places – and quite possibly you’re funding the wrong companies…
Doesn’t appear to be a way to edit posts on here, but just to add – I think there is an equal danger to not working hard enough, which is startup presenteeism – the idea that just working hard in itself is either a ‘badge of honour’ for entrepreneurs or somehow a guaranteed route to success. You can’t just work hard – you have to work smart, too. One without the other is neither useful nor worthy of praise.
Couldn’t agree more. Maybe I’m getting old, but I never remember being asked to work extra hours… and smart/hard workers always got rewarded.
I suspect that alondonvc is actually an expat a UK VC would say leave or annual leave or a more blue collar VC like Alan sugar would say holiday.
Having worked for a CTO who worked in the UK and moved to the Valley for a few years I took the opportunity when we where having a few drinks in the pub to ask about the differences and he said that the same amount of work got done but the difference in al entitlement made no difference as the US workers spent much more time goofing off round the water cooler and kept taking ad hoc long weekend breaks to go skiing. And 10 vs 20 days wont actually give you an extra 2 weeks worth of value and we don’t take off the day off for the queens birthday,
And also there are a number of accepted Spanish practices endemic in US employment that if some one tried it here would get the sack I was actually shocked to see that people in the USA say stuff like well I haven’t been ill so I am owed x days sick leave.
As will Harris says its working smarter and not just presentisim The most success full projects I ever worked on for BT was run on a strict 9-5 basis but we delivered in 28 days what another part of the business had quoted 2 years for. We had to do a strict 9-5 because of a recent “problem” meant that even with the backing of multiple board members BT security was being very anal about people working in that building.
Neuro- definitely agree with your point about productivity being stronger in Europe. I’ve worked in startups in both France and the US and I was shocked at how much more efficient people were in France. So yes, they work less hours and take long lunches (as Arrington pointed out in a post during the LeWeb08 conference but when they’re working they tend to get shit done. I find the difference particularly noticeable among junior folks. Your average 23 year old, fresh out of college is much more mature, independent and reliable in France than in the US, at least that’s my experience with about 10 hires in each country.
London VC, a hard working London startup here. You said you wanted to hear from such startups, so let’s talk: hardworkingstartup@gmail.com
As proven by IBM and countless other people/organizations, working much more than 50 hours a week over a long time REDUCES productivity. This is especially true of engineers, whose work is intensely cerebral for the most part.
For CEOs/management it’s a different story though – even if you aren’t physically doing something that adds directly to the company, you are thinking about it and talking it. Sad though it is, I’ve caught myself answering customer emails at 2am in the morning at a gig/club on a number of occasions and I’m definitely not the exception.
I’ve not been to the valley, and I’m not all that experienced either, but another thing I’ll counter is that I can’t think of one successful London-based CEO who DOESN’T spend the evenings socializing, networking and generally obsessing about their business. This is especially true of the funded companies I know – you only need to check out Meetup or follow them on facebook or twitter to know that’s the case. I’d even add there’s a fair degree of incestuousness also…
Maybe Mr LondonVC’s needs to go to a few more parties
That’s been my experience as well (as a software engineer).
I know that if I work 10 hour days for a few days my intelligence drops by enough that I’m probably going backwards in productivity by the end. In some cases it may be needed, but usually it’s a net-waste.
When I’m “out and about” talking and meeting people I can keep up a lot longer. But if I’m sitting in a room actually trying to solve technical problems I rarely get even 8 productive hours in a day.
If you’re a VC and worried about productivity you should worry more about how people are working and not for how long they are working. There are many things in a developers life which can obliterate productivity much more than can be compensated by working late. Good versioning, issue tracking and information handling rank among the top things which can either hinder or enable your development IME.
Well, this is a quite interesting topic and point of view. I agree with some of your thoughts but definitely not with all of them.
First, I wonder how you get to this statement:
“…while obviously the absolute pool of talent is smaller here in the UK/Europe than it is in the U.S. (and that cannot be disputed nor is it anything…”
especially “obviously” and “that cannot be disputed”. And why exactly is that? This almost sounds like anything useful can only come from the US.
In general, I absolutely agree that you need to be on top of things and always ready if you want to seriously take on a startup. That also includes working a lot and working hard.
Working hard is not the key, though. Rather working smart. And knowing what to work on.
Working hard on the wrong things will get you in jeopardy just as quick as not working enough.
I believe it is sometimes necessary and even required to take a step back and look at the whole picture. If you get lost in your own little world, you’re running danger of losing track. And therefore, I think it’s very valuable to relax your brain or feed it with something else sometimes in order to stay focused in the long run.
Just working your bottom off – long hours etc. – doesn’t guarantee success. Bankers are used to working very long hours, and look what happened to them.
I’d hate the same kind of macho “Oooh! Look at me! I’m working a full day on a Sunday!” culture to become endemic to the point when people feel they have to be *seen* to work hard. Not necessarily to actually *work* hard.
And this may be heresy, but there’s more to life than earning megaspoondoolicks. (and also more to life than playing 24-7 to be fair).
agree that it’s not only how much you work, but how and what. But please, don’t take bankers as hard working people!! i work in a banking epicentre, 85% of my peers are bankers and NONE of them works hard. They’re 8-10 hours at work at most. And after that they’re off for family, sports, leisure, partying (i’m never off except for sleeping). They have a 2-day weekend, mine is 0-days. They go to the Maledives every quarter a year, I use my few days of “holidays” for visiting potential business partners. In fact, i see bankers as prototypes of “work easy-earn much” people. And that’s probably the reason why jobs in banking are still so popular. Hey, bankers even got pay raises and bonuses in 2008/2009!
So please don’t compare honest, really hard working (and little earning) startup enterpreneurs like me with those lazy-a$$ bankers, unless you want to insult me.
(written on a mobile, pardon my bumpy phrasing and mistakes)
I did spent a lot of time in the Valley this year and i have to agree. It’s not that we don’t have passionate founders here in London, but for some reason our friends in the Valley are (in general) better in transferring their DNA, vision and passion, to their employees and or co-workers. The commitment from non-founding team employees in the Valley is amazing.
I met many startups and many of their team members in the Valley, and i was mostly impressed by the commitment and the passion from even the youngest and most junior team members. Everyone i met, felt that she or he is an important part of the team. Everyone sees the startup they work for as a huge opportunity and is willing to work hard for it.
Many founders in the Valley also do everything to make their team feel special and good. They do understand that their team often consists of the best of the best and that many team members them could easily run their own startup.
Maybe that is something we can learn from the Valley.
“our friends in the Valley are (in general) better in transferring their DNA [...] to their employees and or co-workers”
Do you mean by that that they are better at f*cking their colleagues?
I am a web developer working in London, for a startup. I work for a good salary, but not for equity. As much as I love my job (and I should add that I do – the vast majority of my spare time is spent on related activities that I enjoy and that make me better at it), I don’t understand where the incentives for me to work more than my required hours are. As far as i can see, in an employment contract, you have bought 40hrs/week of my time for a certain rate (salary), and anything above that is at my discretion, and mine alone. As much as I value and enjoy my work, I also value my spare-time projects, studies, my girlfriend, my hobbies, friends, and lots of other things, and to some extent, I work to support my life outside work (although I’m certainly priviledged to do so at a job i love). I have never had any trouble acquiring and maintaining gainful employment in this sector, so this attitude clearly is not a problem to any of my employers, past or present. Therefore, if you’d like me to work the kind of overtime you’re describing, how do you propose to incentivise me? In any cost-benefit analysis, pretty much any financial offer you could propose to work those sorts of hours would not be enough – how much would fitting compensation for loss of a significant other and many long-time friends be, exactly?
In summary, I may love my work, but i definitely work to live. I have no problem getting more than enough acheived based on this, and anyone who expects me to work extra hours so they can see a return on their investment, while still paying me a fixed salary can look elsewhere.
“I work for a good salary, but not for equity.”
“I don’t understand where the incentives for me to work more than my required hours are.”
they’re in the equity you’re not working for
As a developer myself I can relate to what he is saying. I also try to work 40 hour weeks. I work for a small startup and have options, and a good salary. But fact is that for those options to pay off in a way that would be worth an additional 10-20 hours per week over several years would mean my company would need to sell out at least $100 million. Do the math, most developers (and managers) hired after the first $5 million is raised wont get more than 1/10 of 1 percent worth of equity. Divide that by 4-5 years before any “liquidity event” and those extra hours probably don’t pay off too well…
“Therefore, if you’d like me to work the kind of overtime you’re describing, how do you propose to incentivise me?” => A chance to kick ass and change the world.
Because that’ll be what your kids remember, right? That you ‘kicked ass and changed the world’ while missing their first step, first word, sports games, recitals, etc.
I’m sure your wife will be happy to never see you because you’re busy ‘kicking ass’ too.
People whining about work/life issues know not of what they speak. I have worked in Silicon Valley start-ups for 10 years, and now run one myself.
We work our asses off and probably put in the sort of long hours being referred to. But I also have the flexibility to go to my daughter’s school to pick her up at 2pm every day; to pick up my son from special ed at 4:30 every day; to see them off in the mornings; to take them to events; to be the one who takes them to the doctor’s office; to volunteer for school trips. I have more time with my wife and children than I ever had free time working 9-5 for a big company in London – where I worked far fewer hours per week.
Start-ups aren’t stupid. They provide an outstanding lifestyle choice that involves working hard all the time because you love what you do. Look at the Netflix HR policy slide deck that’s been floating around for months (Google it). They don’t care how much time you take off or when you take it, just get your job done. You don’t get that in Europe because the flip-side of companies giving people 9-5 existence is it wants to get every minute of that out of you – it’s a lose lose.
> But I also have the flexibility to go to my daughter’s school to pick her up at 2pm every day…
this is the point. if the investor judges people on leaving office at 5 or 6 o’clock, what would he say if he doesn’t find you at your working place at 2 every day?
> People whining about work/life issues know not of what they speak.
i think those that are whining just want to be assured by the london vc that they have such a flexibility that you had in silicon valley startups. and if they have, i think most of them will work their asses off.
The point is you’re an employee and not an entrepreneur which is why you are content with your regular working hours and salary. I am not saying this in a negative way, just that is the way it is.
If you were an entrepreneur you’d understand what London VC is talking about and, probably, if you were a developer in an environment were entrepreneurship is all, like the Valley, your approach would be different.
Then by all means quit your work. I was also lucky to start working in the sector even when i was a student. It’s true that we don’t see great career opportunities and compromise with a daily job here. So i quit my work, started freelancing and working on my own projects, which was the best thing i ever did. I not only managed to make lots more money, i even had the time to do my master’s. And i don’t even work long hours every day. Sure, there are a few weekends where i may not sleep at all when I feel the ‘inspiration’ to work but then there are days that i have nothing to do, so i watch DVDs. I do miss the ‘office’ atmosphere, but at the current situation here, i feel it’s the best
i moved my startup from London to SV in Jan 2007 partly due to this line of thinking. it is false, no-one *productively* works 24/7 and trying to do so is a mistake i don’t intend to repeat on my next startup.
the vision of the workaholic entrepreneur is usually propagated by people with little actual operational experience of raw startups. the best writing i’ve read on the subject is from Naval Ravikant, founder of Epinions (sold to ebay) and early stage Twitter investor: http://startupboy.com/2005/11/29/the-80-hour-myth/
and on the london vs SV work ethic. my peers in london work just as hard as my peers in SV.
The kind of people who read, consider and respond to posts like this are also the kind of hard work people who are the exceptions which Mr/Ms LondonVC accepts do exist. Plenty of people do work hard (myself included), but there are also people who could work harder (myself included) – the two are not mutually exclusive groups.
You seem to have time to write that ! Not me ! Perhaps it is because I do work in a startup !
It’s simple! Every VC wants to pay less and receive more. LEECH!
When European investors spend as much money and as quickly on start-ups as their Silicon counterparts do, they get to ask to for more hours, as you are. Until then, pay-related performance operates as much as performance-related pay does.
Also, at some point, European pundits ought to end their Silicon-Valley envy and just start doing something useful the European way. In the 1980s, American pundits were bewailing the Japanese “invasion” of their industries. The companies that returned America to greatness in the 1990s were not ones that made the USA Japanese, they were ones that did something useful, in their own American way.
The UK, where I am based, has many advantages over the USA and we are busy making use of them rather than complaining about the disadvantages we have relative to the USA.
Great comment.
I must disagree, at least partially. It is very important to make clear what kind of environment is awaiting wanna-be entrepreneurs in Europe. Because the economic education is often zero (European school teachers are usually leftists who passionately hate capitalism), this blog entry is an important peace of information.
It is easy to say “stop moaning, do something about it”. I think everybody should know that there is a reason for it, and young entrepreneurs should head for a place on Earth where their efforts will be most likely successful. If it is SV, so be it. Please, never stop moaning, because there is usually a piece of important information in it.
Anyone working in technology who does not take any holiday for years on end will come a cropper … either through RSI or exhaustion
The point is about creating an “ownership” culture across a startup’s team – something I’ve seldom seen in UK startups. The ownership argument includes the 24/7 worry-habit, but should not be limited to it. Also critical to success are a) recognizing that building value in the company directly translates into building value in your own wallet – which requires being able to set aside personal title/responsibility ambitions for a greater value; and b) treating the company’s money as if it were your own. This often fosters creativity, efficiency and focus.
It’d be a good start if founders would, like, actually cut the developers in for an equity stake.
There’s a cultural thing in the UK: artificers and engineers get no respect. I’ve been through a successful startup — programmer #1, hired two weeks before the company was registered, left after it went public on AIM via reverse takeover — and *all* the developers got sweet FA. (While the CTO trousered a million quid’s worth of preferred options.)
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. (As for me, I got the hell out and found myself a sensible job where I earn three times as much for a quarter the hours, and have a boss I always agree with — myself.)
Agreed, British VC’s don’t see the worth in involving employees in the company success. If all we’re going to get out of a takeover is 10K, we’re not going work the 30% extra needed to beat the (~American) competition.
On the plus side we’re not scared of loosing our medical/homes if we get fired.
After living in Europe (the Netherlands) and dissecting who was always working at our NATO headquarters and who always seemed to be “en vacance,” I found this an engrossing read.
Americans make some terrible balance and lifestyle choices based on their work ethic, but they feel that that is what it takes to be successful. Not sure I always agree, but when I hear some complain about US-centric tech events and news coverage, I think, “Well, there’s good reason for that dominance.”
As we say, “You can sleep when you’re dead.”
OK so I work for a French software editor. This is my 2nd year in the software industry since I’ve finished college. I’m not at all well paid, about 20 K€/year net, all the companies around where I live (7th biggest town of france) pay about the same. I don’t see why I’ll spend even an extra hour for people that pay me shit. They are exploiting me, work ethic is a myth to make us slave.
By the way I’d be glad to work a lot if I felt like I would earn something by doing so. This is not the case here.
Oh yes, that is what I forgot to write in my previous post. Start-ups have no real incentives for most of their staff in Europe. It is only a rational choice (read the word rational again and again until you get the right feeling what it means) to remain relaxed and be back home at 16:00. In fact, EU governments really hate start-ups because there is no lobby for entrepreneurship, but there are gigantic lobbies for traditional corporations. I suspect that there is a connection there.
How about because some get only 2000k EUR/month in other countries in EU?
I meant per year. I have a lot of friends that don’t earn more than that.
Fantastic point that the LondonVC doesn’t touch on… in Silicon Valley a good engineer is on a six figure salary – but then most roles are very well paid. I cannot think of many good startups post funding paying people $20-30k like the commenter.
When budgeting a startup you budget in $10-15k per month per headcount. EU start-ups don’t pay anything close to that, in my experience (be glad to be shouted down on this and shown things have changed over the years). Clearly the VCs aren’t either giving them the money or guidance to incent their workforces right.
Pay well. Provide good equity. Create a flexible rewarding work environment. Then hire the people who want to work in that situation so much that they’ll put in the kind of time and commitment you get in pretty much every startup in Silicon Valley.
But if I hear one person trot out that stupid line: we work to live not live to work …gah! Do people realise how stupid that makes them sound. “Work to live” pretty much tends to mean you take no ownership for what you do, you sit as a passive cog in a machine you have little influence in, and then piss away your paycheck at the weekends. That makes you a zombie. That’s not living, that’s giving up and drowning the sorrows.
Nobody lives to work – they live to live. Taking control of one’s working situation to provide you with the resources you need or want to live the lifestyle you choose is not living to work. It’s called being an adult.
Hmmm… I’m lost here. LondonVC is referring to business startup and entrepreneurs – not to employees. As a business owner you get inspiration from growing revenues. So why should a small wage employee on fixed income respond to the thread?
Every team that I have been part of that has been successful has had a team of people working extremely hard. I’ve been a member of teams that didn’t work that hard and they didn’t achieve that much (also perhaps surprisingly they weren’t as much fun as the hard working teams).
Start-ups are an even more extreme version of this.
That said, Paul Carr got drunk every night for two years but still managed to write a pretty good book at the end of it!
Could not agree more. I am italian, and people think we are slackers but for me 15 hours a day are the norm. And when I am not working I am dreaming about work. I worked in London for nearly 10 years and in NY for 1 and I understand your point exactly. We built a successful business from scratch in London right in the middle of the dotcom bust; started in 2000 and sold in 2006 for £ 150m. And that is because the early group was motivated and in the office everyday until 8-9pm. We loved the thing and lived it. The bar downstairs was buzzing, we would go down, grab a quick pint and go back up to continue working. It was great. I am temporarily back in Italy now (in a small town ok) and I am very frustrated there’s nobody I can bore talking about my new venture. Everything else is secondary.
By the way, I’ll have a prototype live and business plan in about 3 weeks. If you want to get a copy, Techcrunch has my email address.
Well, I see a few reasons and problems with the post (even though I agree with the general message it is sending):
1. European VCs are, for the most part, pussies. If they funded on the same level and terms as their US counterparts, they could also ask for the same commitments from the entrepreneurs.
2. Failure in Europe taints the entrepreneur. It is hard being a first-time entrepreneur, in essence, because you have no experience at it. Failure teaches you a ton of lessons you don’t learn when you’re successful, and you become a better entrepreneur as a result. This is recognized in Silicon Valley. The feeling in Europe is: “why should I work 100-hour weeks, have no social life, and risk my health for something that may mark me as a pariah for the rest of my career?”. A lot of mind changing is required to view failure as a path to success.
3. Europeans are greedier. In Silicon Valley it is far more common to award common stock to all founders, and even consider those who come onboard later on, if their input is significant enough. In Europe, you will at best get stock options with awful conditions and vesting, and forget about significant equity unless you were there at the very start of the venture.
I sooo agree on the part that European VCs are bunch of pussies. Especially the Italian ones…
I think you’re missing the point of the article: he doesn’t appear to be asking for Europeans to work harder in general. He’s asking for Europeans to work harder to make him richer. The measures you suggest would rather defeat his purpose.
I 100% agree with this post. Having worked in both London and the Silicon Valley, I am astounded not so much by the discrepancies in work ethic of my peers (as I don’t feel I’m in a position to judge that, personal situations being different for every induvidual) but in the different attitudes to my own personal work ethic.
I have no problem with working 12-14+ hours a day. I may not be the MD of the company that signs my pay check but to be honest it really doesn’t make a difference. I can see the impact my work has on my company and if I’m not giving 110% then there is less of an impact, therefore fewer tasks completed at the end of the week, therefore less forward motion. The fact that others in the UK condemn this preference of mine – a preference for achievement and success – as obsessive or irrational simply makes me frustrated that I am not surrounded by people equally willing to move our country’s economy and start-ups forward.
Hard work is a requirement for a successful business. Unfortunately (for some) that doesn’t just mean hard work between the hours of 9 and 5. I don’t think it’s any surprise that the most successful companies globally are the ones that don’t keep hours, they just keep passionate employees.
I’d be interested to know what it is you do all day where more hours translate to more work done (instead of just “more time at the office”).
Do you develop or manage? Or perhaps work in sales?
Probably just posts on TC all day. Looks like his productivity is skyrocketing (it’s probably also measured per word!)
This is one fact said straight to all the entrepreneurs full stop. Argue if u want, believe otherwise.
I think there are two general themes in the blog post/comments that we need to seperate out to have a productive conversation here:
1) Eurpean startups, generally speaking, need to up the tempo and iterate faster, share ideas and go all out;
2) Startup employees should work more hours.
I don’t think anyone here disagrees with the first point. There are plenty of UK startups that get this already and are just as focused as any Valley startup. However, it is probably fair to say the general pace is slower than that of the valley, so across the board improvement is definitely desirable.
On the second point, I couldn’t disagree more. I used to think it was “all about the hours” when I was first getting into this game, but have found it’s way more about finding a routine that maxmizes your personal productivity. This could be 14 hours per day, or this could be 8 hours per day; the point is it doesn’t matter. An extra 4 hours per day of unproductive work (usually larking around on Twitter and reading random blog posts) doesn’t push you from the “european slacker” to the “valley warrior” – it just makes you tired and less focused over the long term. It’s a nice sound bite saying “work more”, but the real anthem here should be “work smart and maxmize your personal productivity”. And if you think the key to making software developers more effective is simply more hours then you probably haven’t worked with many before!
-Kieran, Playfire
Great points.
Great points Kieran. I totally agree with you.
Agreed, however, you miss out on a few things, Silicon Valley cannot be replicated because it not only has a unique buzz and robust technical infrastructure, but it has: a) 300 days of sunshine so that one remains exceptionally healthy and clear headed without needing to go on vacations abroad which breaks up the work focus. b) A cost of living that is 1/2 of the UK – plus way better incentives. c) A more honest less narcistic culture. (The narcism that California is known for exists in LA, not so much Silicon Valley.) d) The most beautiful scenery – that makes travelling to and from work, whether on bike or car, a daily pleasure.
I know, I lived there for almost 10 years and if wasn’t for my love of Oxford, England, I would return in an instant.
I omitted in my post to discuss work ethic. As a 1/2 Brit, 1/4 Lithuanian, 1/4 Dutch possibly half Jew (below the belt) with an American heart, I know I work f*cking hard, and most of the Americans, Lithuanians, Poles and other immigrants I know also do. And my engineers are now all foreign. (And brilliant.) Pure Brits, unless artists, will do as little as they can, moan, hit the pub or nightclub, and then arrive at work the next day, pimply, pale and half asleep. They may well do their job, but as anyone who has visited Reading Station can testify too (that specific place represents all that is wrong with Britain – no vision, disgruntled staff, 25 year old technology, generally depressing), pure Brits lack the get up and go positive attitude of many of those from other cultures and locals. As David Langer says, some work to live, others live to work. It’s a genetic thing, and until our gene pool blends a little more, we’re still possibly 10 to 20 years away from possessing the drive of those can do Americans.
Wow, where does Techcrunch find blog commentors like this? Give this guy a guest post – I’m sure it’ll be entertaining… =/
I discovered TechCrunch.
“Pure Brits”. That’s an interesting kind of racism you have there. Maybe think again?
What u on mate? Pure Brits???? And who cares about what one’s origins are? Seriously. Get a life!
+1
weather and scenery are important factors indeed. the city i live and work in is rainy or misty for about 3/4 of the time. contrary to popular believe, working in a warm and sunny climate is more fun.
where i live, we have more than 300 days of sunshine, excellent beaches, the cost of living is less than half of the UK, and adequate technical infrastructure. But we also have a very bureaucratic state, the highest corruption in europe and are nearly bankrupt. Not a very inspiring environment, is it?
you forgot the the 10% inspiration bit ;o)
I agree about the facts, but i also see that as a sick behaviour. This way to commit yourself for a business is truly effective and can kill competitor. It just creates a survival paranoid lifestyle that gives no space for having children for example. This model should become mainstream it would create a workd full of sick people loaded with beautifull objects. Not so appealing to me.
yes we are lazy house owners here.
Great article. Call me anal but you sound like you may be American, words like “folks”, “hook-up” etc make me think that might be the case. Or maybe you’re just a jet setting transatlantic sort of guy!
I think the lack of a proper startup culture is a shame, having once worked at a London based startup that gave 25 days holiday to everyone and the equivalent of $45k salaries to fresh grads with no specific skills, so I can see what you mean.
Having only ever worked with silicon valley types and never actually worked in the valley myself, my assumption is that part of the problem is that the valley’s entrepreneurs, investors etc. typically come from Ivy League schools with a heavy tech focus. All the people they talk to, socialise with, went to college with are focussed on the web and business online. However in London, despite there being some great talent, there isn’t that same level of focus. Maybe people are less likely to have spent 3 years at college coding until the early hours.
Well, let’s talk about figures here, The 3 most productive countries in the world are: the US, Finland and France.
So, really when you think of it, how can France be in the top 3? it’s definitly not about hours you spend in the office, but how you manage your time. I have worked myself 4 years in Spain and it’s really annoying to have to spend 11 hours in the office because spanish tend to “waiste” 2 hours a day talking to their colleagues and obviously not working.
note that a country’s “productivity” is hardly a useful figure here. if, it had to be the productivity of startups only.
France?? That’s funny because in my experience, the French (and the Spaniards) are the laziest workers of all. Sure, one or two may pop above the crowds, but the majority won’t utilize their time well and spend the enire day wasting time. The Brits like to earn their money – and many do earn a lot, – so its a bit odd to hear they would be slacking which I haven’t noticed much.
The main difference between Europe vs the US is that americans strive to get the basic living security all Europeans have no matter how little or much they work. I think earning money has greater possibility when working efficiently than working long hours or around the clock.
Work ethic is at play – correct.
However, I believe we are struggling in Europe with a distorted ecosystem that goes far beyond issues of “work-ethic” and simply does not allow for the successes one witnesses in Silicon Valley. It’s work-ethic, VC risk appetite, VC syndication appetite, exit potential, taxation on reward systems, etc.
I have been lucky to spend time in SV to develop my business and this is my take on it: http://blog.nomadesk.com/digital-nomads/the-us-101-effect/
And yes, we all work our asses off at Nomadesk!
I founded my company full-time in january 2007, almost 3 years 24/7, always online, we got several awards in these hard years competing with companies founded 20:1 our funding, difficult to grow when you are creating technology and customers expect long trials for free as pre-sales activity, and your competitors or similar companies have the funding to afford that and develope fast totally focused in the core of their company.
I try to avoid complaining but in my personal opinion is a little bit unfair blaming “some kind of laziness” the current european start-up scenario.
The good thing of the Valley (and Boston area in case of pure telecom start-ups) is the inercy. The model has been completed and proven succesful, the VC’s even investing less (perhaps before they overfunded the companies) know about growing up them, to the IPO, to a big acquisition, or in case the market is not easy, and they need too much time to be monetized and the other side their product/service is valuable, VC’s are able to find a buyer (a low profile exit but with gains) perhaps from former investments portolio.
That cycle generates trust, and in Europe has not been completed yet.
i think the major difference is the entrepreneurial attitude of sillicon valley workers ( ontop of the starter uppers) compared to that of normal workers.
if you are working for a firm based on sweat equity alone and maybe a cost of living allowance, then you are going to be infinetely more committed the company you choose to work for, than the guy whos getting paid £30-40-50k. the sweat equity guy is desperate for the company to become something because otherwise hes wasted his time. the paid guy on the other hand who has a decent wage and if the company fails he’ll lose his job wont want that to happen, but he will just think “oh what a shame, i wonder who i’ll work for next.
im starting an ambitious site with very little money and am currently hoping to raise another chunk (altho tiny by valley standards) of capital. with that money i want to bring in a small group of the most talented people i can find, but my criteria for hiring them alongside talent, is that they have to show the same entrepreneurial attitude and commitment as me.
having said that if i am going to pay them anything, so they can afford to live, the government would physically abuse me if i allowed them to work for more than 40 hours a week. that is literally a law brought in by the eu.
entrepreneurial workforces and a set of governments that punish hardwork, how are you ever going to compete with silicon valley?
“but my criteria for hiring them alongside talent, is that they have to show the same entrepreneurial attitude and commitment as me.”
Won’t happen unless they fully belief in the project and they get a big cut of the profits.
Expecting others to have your own work criteria and entrepreneurial spirit is unreaonsable. You know how difficult it is just to find ONE person why combines two great business qualities? If they had all the business qualities you want, plus the tech talent you need – they won’t stay with you or need you.
In my view, its far better if the people working with you don’t possess too much of too many great qualities. If they’re good at THEIR job, that’s good enough for me. If they know too much, its just a matter of time they will take ideas from you and take off on their own.
“but my criteria for hiring them alongside talent, is that they have to show the same entrepreneurial attitude and commitment as me.”
Won’t happen unless they fully believe in the project and they get a big cut of the profits.
I had two reactions when i read this. The first was “absolute rubbish” but i did start to think there was something to it.
The people running most of the startups (and trying to get started as in my case) work a LOT. As an example i combine almost full time consultancy and have done for a number of years in my attempts to get started (and i love doing that).
However, it’s the secondary line that’s difficult. In SV (and i have never been there but know many of them) *everyone* wants to be part of the startup and there are great rewards and a respect for the risk you are taking. So although you may not be the founder, you can get a great reward (financially and emotionally) through working with a startup.
Here this simply is not the case and so it doesn’t exactly encourage that core to join your startup. You need to be consumed to get started but you CANNOT do it all by yourself – but it is very tricky to get others buying into that.
I have tried pulling in others on ocassion (to do a FourSquare 3 years ago for example – wich i called “Media City” .. well i’m coder not in marketing
) but people are scared of losing things (house etc) and when you are not the founder that is a bit of a crazed risk to take… in fact even for a founder to put his or her house up when he has a family is a bit crazy in itself.
So in short i disagree with the principle that entrepreneurs need to work harder (or at least the physics of it given the number of hours in a day) but i do agree that as a culture this needs to be encouraged so that others who are not the founders can be brought into such startups and aren’t scared shitless of taking a chance on something.
So in short, entrepreneurs are the same world over, but the people that are essential to grow are easier to get in SV not because of a better talent base but because that pool are encouraged to adopt that culture & to take risks.
I think the author oversimplified things. I believe what’s missing is a sense of the competition, and the situation just gets worse as the best european companies that might ignite it have moved / sold to the US.
I like to compare the web startup scene to the fashion or car industry in Italy. What made it successful is not that people worked day and night, but that they felt the breath of the competition and had a good sense of it. Having a few big players in the market closeby helps to better understand the industry.
And another thing: What’s so special about london that it has to become the startup capital of Europe? I don’t remember many startups starting there. If anything i ‘d say the capital should be somewhere in Scandinavia
I run a shared office space out of new york city called sunshine suites (www.sunshineny.com) and can personally attest to the incredible work ethic that happens not only in silicon valley, but in silicon alley as well. Since we offer all inclusive pricing starting at $275/month, most of my clients are startups, and whether they are bootstrapping in order to build something, have raised vc money, or are moonlighting while working daytime hours on their existing jobs, they almost always have an incredible work ethic. I’m not sure what its like in Europe, but it definitely sounds like (from reading the comments) that a lot of you are really also working hard with the same mindset.
Just checked out your office space offers and the arrangements sound excellent. I’m a native New Yorker now based in Munich. I wish the idea would catch on here! We do have one similar company, but–along the lines of this discussion–the office space is not available after 5 pm or on weekends . . . gaaah.
Its an interesting post. Seems too black and white to me though. Staff (9-5ers) watch their salary and the clock in fairly equal measure. Why shouldn’t they? As several of the respondents here have said, that is all they are paid to do. For them at least that will suffice, that is their job after all. So…don’t give them the key mission critical roles that create competitive advantage – which isn’t every job. Secondly, if the issue in the UK is transferring the entrepreneurial “bug” into the wider team, then we need to look at why this isn’t working well here. Not to repeat many of the views mentioned above, but UK government doesn’t really support this (European working time directives, cost of implementing share option schemes, punitive tax levels etc), but if it was easy everyone would do it. The flipside being, it IS a bit harder to find and incentivise good senior teams in UK start-ups, as we don’t have a strong established culture of nurturing businesses through their growing life stage, but if we take the time to understand and invest in the drivers for this collective buy-in of a team vision, then we can help make this cultural shift – perhaps not on a national / European basis initially but certainly on a per company basis. With all respect to LondonVC, this is an area where you should be well placed to help start-ups. Beyond the cash investment, provide the benefit of your experience of recruiting, retaining, motivating and rewarding clock-free teams to your selected start-ups to help them gain their competitive advantage would surely help both the founders and the VC, aligning interests with an eye on the team and staff welfare.
It doesn’t surprise me at all. I am an entrepreneur, too, and live in Germany. Germans enjoy the reputation of being very hardworking employees, but I cannot share this view. As a business consultant, I have visited numerous enterprises over here and it has only convinced my view. Of course, on average, most Italians and French workers are “lazier” (call it whatever you want). The bottom line is, of course, that even Germans are far from being as hardworking as most US Americans I’ve met in my life.
I have had hard time finding anyone with the right attitude for my small start-up company. Bad and lazy German workers almost cost me my existence. I don’t mind, but the lesson I’ve learned is telling.
The lesson you will learn is that no one is interested to slave away to exhaustion on a fixed salary, to boost your business. Its unreasonable expectations and I constantly see startups demanding this super worker that has talents they themselves don’t possess – and all for 10 euro an hour…
This is not realistic.
I’ve worked both in Silicon Valley and in Europe, and I think this discussion is irrelevant. I’ve seen people from here and there work a lot, and also the opposite.
There is also another similar discussion once in a while about whether US software engineers and better than European engineers. Another discussion that does not make sense. I’ve seen great people here and there, and the opposite.
The big difference imho between here and there is that in the US they are more ambitious and aggressive, and they have a much larger market, not only because of the size of their market, but because the world is looking to them. We all read Techcrunch, the NYT, etc etc, we dont read the German newspapers or blogs. A US startup is more likely to succeed than a Spanish startup, under the same circumstances (same team, same vision…).
But I agree about the ecosystem… none of my old friends here have created a startup, or are VCs.
Basically, most of this Europe vs VC debate is irrelevant imo. However I understand it’s a great topic before Le Web.
Also, I am a bit sick of anonymous posting Mike. US VCs have the balls to be transparent. Apparently a London VC does not. So don’t give me lessons.
There are hundreds and hundreds of VCs and venture people in Silcon Valley. In London there are about, oh, 30-50. And that’s a lot for Europe. It makes sense to grant anonymity so topics like this can be aired. If not, they just wouldn’t be.
Come 2 Bangalore.
I run companies on the East Coast of the US and in Silicon Valley, I can see tremendous differences in work habits between the different regions of this country alone. I am unsure if it is a US vs. EU issue at all. Many on the East Coast don’t get “it” either – at least as much as their Silicon Valley counterparts.
When I am in Silicon Valley (read greater San Francisco Bay Area) the work ethic is switched on all the time. Hell, I even work on BART to and from meetings.
BTW, I will take your investment!!!!
I worked in dotcoms in the UK and US, didn’t notice any great difference in hours put in.
I would say far bigger factors are that Silicon Valley has a unique total ecosystem, a massive homogenous market vs EU countries and VC’s who take the word “Venture” more seriously.
@Harjeet Give that man a medal.
@oflife I think “ofgeneticfailure” would be a better handle for you. You’d fit right into the Nazi party.
That’s assuming you know your history, which quite possibly you, as dont otherwise you’d note first of all this Island is as about as mongrol genetically as modern societies come. We’ve been invaded and conqoured so many times the last 1000 years, Blighty is like an busy bus stop on a Monday morning.
As for gene pool, it is the culture and society of a country which dictates work ethic, not your DNA. Yours sincerely, a Pure Englishman.
** Disclosure ** I employ x1 Egyptian, x1 Russian, x2 Italians, x1 American and x2 Brits (not sure how pure they are, I must remember to ask on Monday) and they all work bloody hard and deliver awesome results.
@Andrew J Scott: True, I should have used the word culture over genes. All said, people should be more direct and not hide their opinion behind politically correctness. If you see my post, I stated that over time, people do adopt new concepts – and it can take a few decades for this to occur. I recall becoming Americanised over several years. It was only when returning here to the UK that I became aware of how I had changed. (For the better IMHO.) Yes, there are hard working Brits, but there is a negativity and slight lack of seriousness in the culture that can hinder progress more so than in the US. But things are getting much much better thanks to the influx of immigrants, including those you employ no doubt. My comment was in fact designed to be positive, but honest. A number of people I know share this view and have mentioned it to me in an unsolicited manner. Not all may have the courage to speak openly on a forum. I was just drilling to the core of one (depatable) reason for the issues discussed by the LondonVC. I welcome being proved wrong and will happily admit so. That is why forums like this are so valuable.