Can someone tell this Italian Judge what Google Video is?
by Mike Butcher
on February 24, 2010

Sometimes I despair of Europe, even though I’m proud of what can be achieved here. But really, guys, can we get it together?

At the same time the European Union is investigating a pretty flimsy anti-trust complaint against Google, it’s conspiciously ignoring a case in Italy where three Google executives have been found guilty on a ridiculous charge. Here is the bizarre story.

An Italian court yesterday convicted two current and one former Google exec in a trial over a video showing a teenager being bullied. The Google Italy employees were accused of breaking Italian law by allowing the video of bullying of a teenager with autism to be posted on YouTube Google Video in late 2006.

Despite the fact that Google removed the video within hours of being notified of its existence, Judge Oscar Magi (pictured) absolved the three of defamation but convicted them of privacy violations. The three executives have received a suspended six-month sentence, while a fourth defendant was acquitted. Google is appealing the sentences on their behalf.

Google has responded in a justifiably vociferous blog post calling this a “serious threat to the web in Italy”. Frankly they are right.

As Google explains:

In late 2006 Students at a school in Turin, Italy filmed and then uploaded a video to Google Video that showed them bullying an autistic schoolmate. The video was totally reprehensible and we took it down within hours of being notified by the Italian police. We also worked with the local police to help identify the person responsible for uploading it and she was subsequently sentenced to 10 months community service by a court in Turin, as were several other classmates who were also involved. In these rare but unpleasant cases, that’s where our involvement would normally end.

However, a public prosecutor in Milan decided to indict the four Google employees —David Drummond, Arvind Desikan, Peter Fleischer and George Reyes. These guys left the company in 2008.

The charges were for criminal defamation and a failure to comply with the Italian privacy code.

Now, why did someone not explain to this idiot judge that the video was NOT uploaded by these Google executives?

Hello?

Now Drummond, Fleischer and Reyes have been convicted.

In other words an Italian court has found that employees of an internet company are criminally responsible for content that users upload.

The court is ignoring existing European law which gives hosting providers a safe harbor from liability so long as they remove illegal content once they are notified of its existence.

It’s at this point one wonders if we should just give up on Italy as ever getting the Internet.

Google is appealing the decision, obviously.

Look, Italy needs to get its act together and fast.

I’m calling on Italian entreprenuers, many of whom I know and respect to get involved in this issue.

At a time when European countries are weighed down by regulation and stupid rulings like this one, especially during a period of huge economic upheaval, it is not enough to stand by and watch travesties like this go by.

Do the young people of Italy and the rest of Europe, so many of whom are huge enthusiasts of the Web and the power it gives them to drag themselves up by their bootraps without the need for state help, deserve to have decrepit judges decide their economic future?

I think not.

UPDATE: As commenters note below, the Judge in question is on Facebook, so he presumably knows what user generated content is. In which case why this bizarre judgement?

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  • http://www.globepinners.com Nicola Cassolato

    This is really sad :( :(:(

  • http://www.stradbrokeadvisors.com Inma Martinez

    Mike, Mike, Mike…. Why are you so surprised? These are the people that vote for Berlusconi, who is the owner of the media and that’s why paying for an internet connection in Italy is about 50€/month. NO WONDER WHY THIS JUDGE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOUTUBE IS……… And apologies to all the Italian entrepreneurs but since Berlusconi made it to the cover of Italian Rolling Stone for representing the “Life of a Rock Star” I want to slap in the face every “Guido” I meet…. (apologies again. Italy was the 5th economic power in the 1980s and it pains me to see it like this)

  • http://www.secondteacher.com Robert Doyle

    I hate these “opinion” pieces on TechCrunch. You do not know the full facts and have decided to skew what you have heard into a half baked rant.
    Please god this is not a foretaste of news with traditional jounalism dead.

  • Bob Peterson

    Cool. I think that is great. Once the content appears on your site, you are responsible for it. Hence why Youtube takes down copyrighted videos.

    A kid with down syndrome being bullied and youtube leaving it on the site…means they are liable. Its a moral cause.

    Kudos to Italy!

  • tehag

    EUropeans don’t want to be Americans. Let the EU be the EU. It’s their web, too.

  • nenslo

    What do you expect of a country & its government that views the internet the same way puritans viewed paganism?

  • Mark Vanderbeeken

    I wonder if judge Magi has written consent from his 47 friends, listed with full names and photos on the judge’s entirely public Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1643652025

  • Steve Jobs

    Anyone got a link to the video? I want to convert it to mp4 for my ipad.

  • http://www.easybranches.com/8398/ Can Someone Please Tell This Italian Judge What YouTube Is? | Easybranches.com™

    [...] Read the rest of this entry » Liked this page: [...]

  • isotonic

    My site runs on user-generated content but I wouldn’t dream of publishing it without review. If Google wants to monetize other peoples’ content they should probably take a look at it first.

  • marc

    “Sometimes I despair of Europe, even though I’m proud of what can be achieved here. But really, guys, can we get it together?”

    Mike – seriously. Without european technology and human capital the States would still consist of Cowboys and Farmers (like they still do in this little area between California and New York).

    US patent and customer protection legislation is a mere JOKE compared to Europe. It’s always funny (from a european point of view) that US people so strongly believe in their freedom, while they are in reallity just slaves of “corporate america”. In Europe one man is able to slap a monolithic corporation in the face – via the European Court of Justice. In the US the argument is always “XYZ corp developed it, they have every right to limit your rights – even you bought the product”.

    Google has every right to appeal against this decision (and get it reversed – i am also no fan of “criminal proceedings in absence” like they are possible in Italy), but your article (at least sounds as) you are absolutely over-generalizing things. No area in the world has such sophisticated “weapons” for the ordinary people (against governments and corporations) as Europe.

    (one recent example: the european parliament voting down the SWIFT agreement)

  • isotonic

    youtube runs fine on the iPhone/iPad, troll.

  • some guy

    Your site is not visited by millions of people per day. It would be impossible for Google to monitor all content directly.

    Google apparently removed the content after complaints. What else can it be expected to do?

    Why doesn’t Italy go after the people who wrote the programming for the websites too? Or the company that made the phone used to record it? Or the network that transmitted the data to Google’s server? Aren’t all these groups responsible for the video and privacy violations?

    The bottom line is that Google is not responsible for the videos that people are posting to its video services. There is no way to make that claim.

  • http://card.ly/banelicious Matteo Pirelli

    Well I’m an italian freelance webdesigner, and I feel ASHAMED, if not EMBARASSED, of being Italian, specially when we’re talking about Internet and technology in general.

    The new generations (I’m just 24, but the difference of culture, knowledge and so on is really big against people born just 4 years after me.) really are tech-ignorant, spending their whole time on Facebook, netlog, badoo and other crappy sites like those (I’m not saying FB is crap, the way italian kids use it IS), not knowing basic computer task about anything, primarly Security.

    And the politicans are even worse: old, stupid and tech-ignorant too.

    This news is disgusting, proving another time that law in Italy is led by personal interests of that piece of shit called Silvio Berlusconi.

    I am totally with Mike Butcher for this one, but I’d like to tell something, mainly at Inma Martinez:

    don’t be stereotypical, a 20MB internet access here in Italy is barely 20€/monthly, not 50€ as you claim. There are a lot of professionals working everyday with internet, social networks, new media and such, but we’re few, the digital divide is still high, and personally I prefer it being like this.
    I don’t like having douche also on the internet since I’m dealing with them everyday in real life.

    And no, people voting for Berlusconi are far less than you could think, but magically, he always win the elections.

    Sorry for my poor english

  • Gabbin C. Freemont

    My family left Italy for the US about 100 years ago along with thousands of others- I think only the idiots remained in Italy. I’m glad my folks left when they did-Italy is turning into a backwards, third-world country.

  • Tim

    Agreed. This worries me more than anything else.

    Old media has a responsibility to be fair and balanced. Without this, it is nothing more than propaganda.

    Blogs deem it fit to plagarise new sites, spin stories as they like and call them “opinion pieces”. In the process, they stir up xenophobic and protectionism attitudes.

    As old media struggles to remain profitable, blogs gain in profitability by using unvetted writers and being unaccountable to all the professional hallmarks of old media.

    So where’s the rational behind the Judge’s opinion, where is the mention of Italian privacy law?

    Describing the anti-competitive behaviour investigation into Google in the EU as “flimsy” – is that balanced? Wouldn’t you prefer an investigation that brought up nothing rather than no investigation at all?

    This is nothing more than propaganda for Google and America and it’s dangerous world it leads us into.

  • some guy

    Yes, Europe is the bastion of freedom from “corporate slavery” and is where the world gets its technological advances and Americans are all backwards and ignorant.

    You are so learned and intelligent with all your amazing generalizations.

    European protections against supposed “moral” “abuses” are the reason that Europe has been a technological leader during the past 50 years and not Asia and America. Oh wait…

  • Luca

    dear Inma.. you don’t know NOTHING about italian government if you talk like that!

    First of all Internet connection in italy is about 19€/month.. and not 50… maybe is more expensive than US or UK, but it’s not a good for rich people.. everyone have ADSL in italy!!

    Second, i don’t know where are you from.. UK i suppose, i think your REALLY need to focus on YOUR politics and politicians, cause i think that every country have their own problems…

    Third, your comment on italian about the fact that you slap every “Guido” (probably you need to say Mario cause Guido is not a very common name in italy) is offensive… take your apologieze back.. they are not accepted

    To all the other people here.. the post is write.. that judge was very bad.. but i think it’s not going to be a problem cause google’s employee can ask for an audienca at EU court… but this episode is very sad… this is the example that italian law have BIG BIG problem, cause some judge are not able to use it correctly… but not alny in this case… in italy there are several cases of bad-justice :(

    Greetings from Rome

  • Luca

    I think Italy is better without people that thinks like you…

  • http://card.ly/banelicious Matteo Pirelli

    Indeed, but the main point remains: Italy is becoming a crappy place to live…

  • Mull

    “Sometimes I despair of Europe, even though I’m proud of what can be achieved here. But really, guys, can we get it together?”

    Italy != Europe.

  • isotonic

    They are responsible for whatever they directly profit from. The scale of their operation is irrelevant. “Too big” is no defence. Google publishes the videos, Google profits from them, Google is responsible for them.

  • Jan

    Can someone tell this Mike Butcher what Ridiculous is?

    Ridiculous is to sue Starbucks for millions of dollars because the coffee is to hot. Or to sue Mc Donald’s for millions of dollars because you are too fat. Or to sue Pfizer because you don´t get a boner even though you dropping some viagra.

  • Rankhar

    That is crazy. Then again, the Italian legal system is very corrupt. And @tehag who said “EUropeans don’t want to be Americans. Let the EU be the EU. It’s their web, too.” Italy might be a part of the EU, but that’s about where the similarity between the other countries in the EU ends.

    Also @mike butcher: you start the article with “Sometimes I despair of Europe, even though I’m proud of what can be achieved here. But really, guys, can we get it together?” I’m from The Netherlands, and just wanted to point out that the EU is not a unity in the way you portray it; every country has its own laws, its own policies etc. We also share a lot of policies on the EU-level, but there are vast differences between each nation. What a county such as Italy does is not representative of ‘Europe’. All us EU-countries are linked because of the monetary union, and yes, there is a European court. If you would appeal this case in front of a EU court (or a Dutch, British, Swedish, Finnish, German, etc. court), it would be laughed out of court. Italy and Greece and several other countries are just still very much different, much more corruption, strange court decisions, etc. Over time, that will probably change; at the moment though, the EU is just starting the process of ushering these countries into a more ‘developed’ system. In some cases, that could take decades.

  • http://officeinthecloud.blogspot.com SHuelin

    Glad that I’m still living in Canada.

  • Luca

    I’m not so critical about Italy… we have problems, of course we have. But this case of stupid-judge cannot be THE example of italian country… it’s not like that..
    It’s not true that italian people are not good with thecnology/internet… yes we are not US, but people use internet, everyone have an email, we use skype, we do everything like the other country! Yes maybe when you looking for a job you don’t use LinkeIN but you send stupid paper-based curriculum… we have too much bourocracy, but we are not bad in use of technology imho.

    Living in Italy is not so bad.. other country have other problems… sometimes wrost than ours… look at US, what’s happen there on financial market is 100times worst of what happen to us… but i’m not here to say bad about US.

    I think every country need to take a look INSIDE and not OUTSIDE the border: Italy is not the best place on earth, but is not bad like i read in european newspaper..

  • Rankhar

    Sorry, my reply was not meant in response to the above comments from Luca, Matteo and Gabin, pressed the wrong reply button, my reply was in general.

  • Scott

    Was it YouTube or Google Video? Better check.

  • Filippo

    Well, bitter words aside (telling names to Italian residents is not the best proof of first-worldly modernity), it is true that in Italy the political institutions see the Web mostly as a threat.

    Most of them politics do not understand a thing about Internet, and those who do are only worried about a communication medium that is not as controllable as TV and newspapers are.
    Needless to say, this specific government, led by a media tycoon (to say nothing about his – behaviour), is EXTREMELY keen to put Internet under control, or scare those who could use it to propose alternative views of the society.

    In this context, you will always be likely to find a judge who adheres to this narrow-sighted, biased vision of the Web. In the end this can only reduce even more our (as Italians) freedom of information and speech.

  • http://www.simte.it Simte

    @Mike you are right, clearly judges and legislation has to be kept updated with the technology pace.
    And yes, here in Italy probably we have more trouble on this than in other countries.

    But what happen in Italy is not an attach to the web is just legal dispute about how much Google is (re)acting to comply with privacy legislation. Unless we think Google = Web (I hope not!), is only a matter of a multinational that feels uncomfortable with the local legislation.
    Nothing new under the sun, just the Google reaction is strange, since a “not an evil company” should avoid to over-react and distorce the fact in doing PR.

    Google is a big big company, there is no reason they need our support in order to defend their rights. They will appeal on this, this is enough.

    Google has also problem on offshoring tax payments, if condemned on this will they call it a web attach also ?

    I agree with Robert, if you want to make your point of view, first collect the fact (not only the blog post fo Google).

    @Inma On what your opinion on Italians are based on? Rolling Stone Magazine? :-)

  • http://card.ly/banelicious Matteo Pirelli

    I envy you, no sarcasm meant

  • elia

    This post is indeed better classified as tabloid trash than informed journalism.

    The problem in this case is precisely the thorny legal issue of “what YouTube is”. While this post takes for granted that YT is a mere hosting provider, it is arguable that it has evolved beyond that role into an editor (YT home page features licensed content, recommended content, editorial picks,..). As an editor, YT would be subject to different EU laws and responsibilities, called in cause by the Italian judge.

  • anders

    Seriously.. you people are all debating that this is an italian decision. Or that it’s a european decision. This is one judge making a terrible decision, thats it!

    There are judges in the US, UK even Tawian that all make terrible decision’s. Lets not generalize countries or continents after this.

    or lets just continue the country bashing, its way more fun
    americans are fat… europeans are stuck up… french are cowards.. Chinese are small.. and ausies are drunk

  • anders

    thats the spirit!! give up on your country!!
    america is also going down the drain.. might be time to move again?!?!

  • http://www.simte.it Simte

    Google executive are condemned because the company took to long to put the video off-line.
    So the Judge consider them responsible not for the video posting but for not take out the video.

    Google is considered to act on “safe harbor” in late, so their executive (as company executive) are legal responsible.

    Maybe the Judge knows very well what is You Tube and how it is supposed to work by law.

  • simmons

    hello,
    i’m italian….and not surprised.
    what do you expect from people who don’t know anything about internet?… we live in a third world country that produces brilliant minds… and the gap between them is so great that we can only resign and try to win personal battles in the field of culture and the Internet world.
    The songwriter Gaber would say: “I do not feel Italian, but fortunately and unfortunately I am.”

  • http://www.liviacolare.com/2010/02/24/se-uno-non-capisce-uno-youtube/ Se uno non capisce uno YouTube — Livia Iacolare

    [...] bella figura di merda made in [...]

  • http://ivanmarino.blogspot.com Ivan

    I think we must clearify some points.

    In this case Goverment is outside of the Court.

    Goverment, after several cases is trying to set up a round table where discussing with most important players (Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Netlog, etc) a procedure on how remove illegal content before taking legal actions…. (maybe results will be not be good but I think is a step forward…).

    Being back to the fact. Youtube and Google makes money on video through advertising and for that reason they were accused.
    I totally agree that Google is not responsible for content uploaded and I think is up to the users making those things not to happen….
    But everything is perceived as Politics in Italy.. and is not like this. I would say this fact will be probably used as a Flag for politicians (pros and against)…

    Google took the video down within hours of being notified by the Italian police. They also worked with the local police to help identify the person responsible for uploading it. And I think Google involvement should end at this point…
    Otherwise if I use a mobile phone to insult a friend of mine, we have to accuse Vodafone because it offers me the service….
    Finally I agree on what Matt Sucherman post on the Google Blog: “It attacks the very principles of freedom on which the Internet is built. Common sense dictates that only the person who films and uploads a video to a hosting platform could take the steps necessary to protect the privacy and obtain the consent of the people they are filming. European Union law was drafted specifically to give hosting providers a safe harbor from liability so long as they remove illegal content once they are notified of its existence. The belief, rightly in our opinion, was that a notice and take down regime of this kind would help creativity flourish and support free speech while protecting personal privacy.”

  • Jeffery Parks

    Government officials are out of control, in the US and outside. I hardly see the US as a ‘free’ country any more.

    Our freedoms are being taken away one by one and we’re not standing up to prevent it. I’m the most guilty of all.

    Obama has taken first steps at making the Whitehouse more transparent. We need more transparency at the Supreme Court level and state and local levels as well. With today’s technology, you shouldn’t have to read about the next law enacted in the newspapers. Anything that could become law in your state and community should easily accessible (pushed) and easily responded to.

    We have the technology, it just needs to be done.

  • Al Brown

    apparently if someone posted photos on a wall, the building owner is somehow responsible even if they took them down immediately

  • david audrain

    Mike,

    The first paragraph of your post is useless, it’s your own opinion, it’s over generalizing. Imagine I complain about California and generalize to the whole north america, well I would be over generalizing and certainly being wrong.

    I don’t see any “plus” in such opinion except generating useless comments, pushing people burning time fighting each other : My country is better and yours is very bad…

    Readers (and Mike) are strongly invited to search internet about how italian justice works, what are the (EU) options for these ex-google guys.

  • Anthony

    You hear that everyone? The post is “write”.

    It scares me that someone can make a half decent argument and then make such a stupid error.

  • Anthony

    When was the last time a YouTube video that was featured on the homepage caused legal trouble?

    Never I presume.

    Again. It’s a hosting provider. If nothing else at least in the case of this particular issue.

  • http://federicomoretti.name/ Federico Moretti

    I’m Italian and I’d like to tell him something different than what YouTube is (and it was in 2006). Like where he should “go” — a typical Italian insult… but it’s vulgar and could be considered a crime too, because of his public role. BTW, I’m ashamed: our Magistracy sucks more than China’s. Four years of a unconceivable trial to have this decision… WTF!?

  • Luca

    come one… i write fast and sometimes i made stupid errors.. come on it’s not my native language

    we can speak italian if you prefer :P

  • Martino

    I’m quite sure the sentence will be taken down in Appeal or in Cassation. There’s the EU Directive 2000/31/CE to deal with.

  • Luca

    do you see!!
    Come one = come on :P

    I need to read 2 times before submit :P

  • Harry

    it scares me that someone can make a fairly reasoned post for discussion, and all some twonk can do is pick on a spelling mistake. what a tragic internet cliche (you are).

  • Luca

    Yes, I agree that the ruling looks wrong and it is definitely dangerous. Let’s hope it’s not confirmed on the appeal!

    but… two things should be noticed:

    1. the case is not about Youtube but rather Google Video and goes back to 2006: it has been noticed that at the time the terms and conditions for GV stated that every video was going to be verified for compliance with privacy & copyright rules *before* being published.

    2. it seems that the video was removed 2 months after google was notified of it by some user…

    we need to see the reasoning behind the sentence and it may well be that the point 1 above is what makes Google liable (if a service says that it does a pre-sceeening, then it should do it, and cannot be considered a mere service provider).

    Ironically, the point 1 above was probably there at the time to prevent uploading of copyright-infringing content and is not present anymore in the GV terms and conditions and perhaps never was in the ToS for Youtube…

  • will

    this is why britain needs to re evaluate its relationship with europe.

    this crazy italian law, could just as easily become an eu law, just like the working time directive. (how is an entrepreneur supposed to start a company if he and his fellow founders are only allowed to work 40 hours a week?)

    gordon brown is bad enough, do we really want the presidents and prime ministers of other countries butting in?

  • AndreaF

    @Imma: Luca is right; @Anthony: insulting someone for a spelling mistake is childish and shows ignorance.
    On the matter at hands: I agree that this country (I am Italian) is behind most others in getting the internet and the changes it is causing to the way we live, do business and interact. And definitely, those guys should have not be found guilty. The judge perhaps should be castrated unless, and here I am not too sure, italian law says they should be condemned. Italian law on privacy is stricter than most countries and certainly stricter than US and EU law, so it is possible that the judge is just blindly following the law. It doesn’t make the situation much better overall but we can’t blame a judge for applying the law – that’s his job.
    I am all in favour of openness and I don’t think that google should be held in any way responsible for these facts.
    However, I suspect that there’s much more behind it and while I understand very well and embrace the direction the internet is taking us (I have been working in new media for all of my professional life), I am not ready yet to abdicate my privacy and the rules of law to Google.

    We have 2 problems here in Italy (I feel qualified to give an opinion since I have bee living abroad for the last 10 years and only recently came back to Italy):
    1 – politics: our politicians are useless and they are old – we are finally trying to send them packing, but it’s a slow process as you can imagine;
    2 – we, the younger generation, are quick to complain but do nothing to change things.

    I don’t accept the insults to my country from someone who is ignorant and is quick to critisize without understanding but I do understand that we need to improve or we’ll be left behind.
    The world is changing too fast for anybody to just wait and see.
    Peace.

  • http://www.marcomontemagno.com Marco Montemagno

    Hi Mike we have a serious “cultural digital divide” problem in Italy (here a video to better understand it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK4J5JpTX0s ).

    I can tell you that since 2008 I’m being running an “internet evangelizing show” throughout Italy (
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGNcChIRC7o ) and yes it’s a damn difficult situation cause of our media and political ecosystem.

    It’s an hard fight but I’m really confident in italian people (we have amazing talents here) and the web in the end will win :)

  • henry

    @anders

    You are right. How can a case define a whole legal system, a whole country and a continent. Come on people, lets calm down and think like adults.

    If the case is as straight forward as presented by TC, then I’m very confident the EU or the Italian legal system will fix the decision.

  • will

    its a blog, surely the point is the authors opinion?

  • will

    that is the eu project is it not?

  • igniman

    Mike, what is it with you and your Euroscepticist views all the time. Whatever stupid thing happens in a corner of this continent, you suddenly generalize to “the whole of Europe”. I understand that this is a bad court ruling, and rest assured that once the word goes out it will be overruled, but you can’t just generalize saying everything is crap. Italy is a great country, just like the UK and the rest of European countries. We are still culturally very diverse and there is no such thing as a “European” culture. If anything we should be named the “old christian nations”.

    Anyway, you need to stop bashing everything that goes on in any of these countries. We will never become a silicon valley. America is blessed to have a common language and common culture which is a benefit only the chinese can match. We don’t even have a european TV yet, so i never expect to have common internet services.

    So stop “despairing” for Europe, and accept the fact that we can’t “get it together” the same way as the americans. Greets from the island of Crete

  • http://www.sachaworld.com Andreas Khoury

    Careful! you might be accued of judge/court defamation next time you visit Italy :) :)

    However, I agree this is a strange vedict

  • Michael W

    EX? They may all be ex-Google Italy employees, however, Drummond, at least, remains affiliated with Google itself. See link below:

    http://www.google.com/corporate/execs.html#david

    Your article is quite ambiguous in that it describes the three individuals as “ex-googlers” without specifying that they may have left Google Italy but some (at least Drummond) remain affiliated with Google itself. Further, references to “the company” are subject to the same type of confusion (i.e. are you referring to Google or Google Italy).

    I don’t know the facts here but this ambiguity makes me question whether there are other errors in this post.

  • will

    bollocks, you may as well say royal mail is responsible for hate mail.

  • JoshK

    Instead of b*tching about it, why don’t you compare the TC article against some “real media” sites to see what they have to say? Here, I did the hard work for you:

    Wall Street Journal:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704240004575084851798366446.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories

    BBC News (yes, even a European site!):
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8533695.stm

    @Robert Doyle: If you think you have “the full facts” then please share them with us. That’s the point of this “new media” where anyone can comment. Occasionally a commenter brings real value to the conversation, and helps elevate us all. Well, good luck next time, anyway.

  • Tina

    Not just italy…

    the same idots are in the german government…

    they talk about the internet and said that its “a room without any law” but try to start a webshop:
    1 missing line and you pay thousends of € bec of a missing info or whatever..

    or the fear about google streetview…

    or the hadopie in france

    stupid politicians

  • igniman

    Seriously, i don’t believe the UK has ANY relationships with the rest of europe to “reevaluate”. You could leave the EU and most EU citizens would not notice [except for the bankers, of course]. Germany seems to have solidified a more “central” role than you.

  • mario

    Hi, I’m italian and (uè, ciao bella!) I’d like to say that I don’t like all these stereotypes about Italy (what? he said no? Make him an offer he can’t refuse). we are humans like all of you, just a little hairier and noisier. we have phones, we can drive cars and we know what windows 97 is. nobody here knows nothing about this “mafia” even though I like spaghetti and I play mandolino. we have great leaders and judges that tell us what’s wrong and what’s right. Is it something to be ashamed of? you and your youtubething come to Italy to beat our children in our schools. why? we had to put you in prison.

    p.s. if you think it’s a joke, you have to spend a week here talking with the people

  • Brian D

    “Prosecutors argued that Google broke Italian privacy law by not seeking the consent of all the parties involved before allowing it to go online.”
    (quote from bbc link in blog)

    You may not like it now, but note: a lot of laws are changed due to people getting convicted.

    You can argue is quicker to change a law via conviction and appeal than it is via government.

    This conviction can been seen as a good thing.

  • Bill Ashbless

    There is a simple solution to this:

    Turn off all Google access for all IP addresses originating in Italy.

    Google would lose a small amount of income, but Italy would lose a lot more. Think about the public response to losing Google for a day or even a week. Even in Italy this would make a huge difference.

    When the outraged geek crowds with pitchforks and torches are outside the courthouse and government offices, I’m pretty sure the judge would reverse his poorly considered decision quickly.

    *That* is the power of access to information. Like it or not, without Google we’re all a lot more stupid — even more stupid than this judge’s decision.

  • http://arcadespromenades.wordpress.com/ wesley Rykalski

    erm…
    1) why is this so terrible; ‘google enables and profits from bullying shock’ is actually pretty bad.
    2) The EU is right to investigate ‘anti-trust’ issues that’s a key part of its job (and why is that bad?).
    3) The ‘EU law’ you talk of has to be enacted and implemented by each member state in its own way so there is no necessary 1-1 mapping of EU Directives and eventual national law.
    4) The EU doesn’t really deal with criminal cases – try googling the difference between European Court of Human Rights & the ECJ. Perhaps the google ex-executives should consider appealing under some heading of the European Convention on Human Rights?
    5) This ‘safe harbour’ stuff seems to be more of an agreement between the US federal govt’ and the European Commission (effectively the executive body of the EU) rather than a law.
    6) Why is journalism considered to be so good in the US? You do seem to be rather bad at reporting after all. Is it that you ae all just as cringing in the face of corporate power as Fox ‘news’ (http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/3891760/?playlist_id=87185)?
    7) Is all this rubbish because you’re all still smarting over the ‘crunchpad’ debacle and have just got to lash out?

  • Kevin

    Google should be taken to court more often – certainly about copyright violation. One of their main business models is to publish other people’s material without asking – and then show advertising along side. Tell me any original content that Google itself has generated?

    Yes I know they take down copyrighted videos if asked, but then the copyright owners have to police it all – a huge (virtually impossible) task esp. for small companies, independent film makers etc.

    Google/YouTube should moderate/police their uploads in the first place. I’m all for Internet freedom but I’m NOT in favour of abusing copyright and massively profiting from other people’s content – esp. by large corporates like Google.

  • Tim Cook

    i thought it was removed from youtube.

    P.S. you claim you have an ipad? we are now tracing in cooperation with interpol. We WILL find you and we will SMACK you down

  • Snooki

    All these comments focus on this mythical “right or wrong” side to this judge’s decision. But what is Italian law? In the United States, laws protect ISP’s and content hosts (not 100% but mostly) against content uploaded by its users as long as illegal or “offending” content is taken down in a timely manner. But perhaps Italy doesn’t have this same law and it is the ISP’s responsibility to monitor content BEFORE it’s posted. Perhaps
    Google knew this law but decided to ignore it. And perhaps this Italian judge decided to issue a hefty penalty to teach them a lesson.

  • Snooki

    You’re making an argument completely void of any analysis or understanding of Italian law. Perhaps Italian law explicitly claims that YouTube is responsible for monitoring content before it’s uploaded. There seem to be many experts on Italian law here on TechCrunch so perhaps someone can answer that question.

  • oihiohioh

    Yea ill explain it.

    Hey judge, youtube is basically a website which commits copyright infringement and doesnt care about the copyrights of others works.

    there

  • elvirs

    its amazing how much people love to talk politics, do you know why? because to speak in any other field you need to have good knowledge about the subject you are discussing but in politics, you dont. every opinion counts in politics, and there is no science in it (even though political sciences is a department in our university:)) so you are free to say as much nonsense as you want. good luck politicians:)

  • Candido

    “Despite the fact that Google removed the video within hours of being notified of its existence”

    Is that true?

    The video was posted september 8.
    The first negative comment was posted october 4.
    The first removal request was filed november 4.
    The video was deleted november 7.

    So Google waited 33 days (not hours) after first negative comment (that is the point from it learned about its existence) to delete that video.

  • Jenny

    I may have missed something here, but can someone please enlighten me why in the first place those Italian students who took the sickening video were not the ones the Italian courts went after?

  • oihiohioh

    “Now, why did someone not explain to this idiot judge that the video was NOT uploaded by these Google executives?”

    thanks for proving you know NOTHING about law.

  • perry

    romanes ite domum!!!

  • elvirs

    actually it clearly says that students involved in the incident were judged and sentenced, not only active participants but also those who facilitated. even the girl who uploaded video to youtube got 10 month sentence.

  • Candido

    You forgot to mention pizza, spaghetti, mandolino and mamma.

    /hug

  • Candido

    In fact, we don’t know *why* the judge decided like that.

  • http://wendell-communitylit.blogspot.com/ Wendell Dryden

    Aussies are drunk?

    I learn so much on TC.

    ;)

  • Candido

    Problem is that Google refuses to apply the italian privacy law.

    When I say “refuses” I mean they told that to the italian judge (in a paper filed, a “parere pro veritate” in italian).

    So, can an italian company operate in the U.S. and without following americans laws? Can a U.K. company do that?

  • Stefano

    No, that would be 3 days after the request for removal. Do you expect Google to monitor all negative comments too?

    BTW, Google removed the video within hours of being notified by the Italian police. I don’t really think Italian police spends its day clicking “Flag this video”.

  • http://www.etondigital.com/italian-youtube-ruling-a-storm-in-a-teacup-or-just-another-international-pr-spat-for-google/ Italian Youtube ruling: a storm in a teacup? or just another international PR spat for Google? | etonDIGITAL

    [...] for those that haven’t already heard, this week has been somewhat of a historic one for Italy’s web laws – and not in a good way. This is because an Italian judge has convicted three former Google [...]

  • Andrew

    Substitute “European socialist government” for “corporate america” and tell me how that is better? Oh wait, you can’t do anything to stop them! Look at what’s going on in Greece.

    “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” -Margaret Thatcher

  • peter

    Yes,exactly. For example, the article says that “Despite the fact that Google removed the video within hours of being notified of its existence…”. Is it really a fact, or the fact is just the Google PR said that? For example, prosecutor said it was more than a month until they took it down, despite the fact that several people complained.

    Now I don’t know which one lies, but a normal journalist should investigate into it, not just publish the most fitting opinion as a fact.

  • Zhou

    I totally agree with the author in content, but not in tone. One stupid Italien judge doesnt make all judges of Europe decrepit. It’s like comparing Kansas to New York.

  • Arvind

    The judge doesn’t seem innocent. He needs the Big G to offer some coffers…

    As Einstein said it before, universe & stupidity have no limits.

  • Candido

    So, are you telling that the report flag is useless?

    Or maybe the report flag is only for editors who wants to remove copyrighted material?

  • outside2344

    what is windows 97? is that a special Italian version of Windows?

  • outside2344

    I would normally agree with you but there is this pattern in the EU that is developing of shaking down US technology companies for money that is not unlike mafia tactics. First Microsoft (ok, deserved), but Intel and Google? WTF — how about investigating one of a thousand worse monopolies in Europe.

  • Candido

    There’s another problem: we don’t know if there’s a previous removal request, because Google said they didn’t know…

    The november 4 request is the first removal request *proved* not by Google.

  • Marco F

    I’m embarassed to be italian :(

  • Stefano

    No, I’m just saying that Google should act after a reasonable number of “flags”, not just one. Don’t you think?

    Where did you get those dates from anyway? I haven’t been able to find them anywhere.

  • http://hgw27.net/archives/67 Parte in causa : HGW27

    [...] è arrivata una discussa sentenza di condanna nei confronti di tre dirigenti di [...]

  • http://practicalize.com israel Vicars

    WHAT???

    So, if I walk up to your house, put up a racist/defammatory/illegal poster and leave…you think should be arrested?

  • http://practicalize.com israel Vicars

    They didn’t leave it on the site, they took it down within a few hours.

  • peter

    This is what G say. But the prosecutor and other media say that the video was uploaded for about 2 months…read timesonline article or other real media who reported about it.

  • jpgousse

    I think this is a little more complex than just saying that Italian judges are stupids.

    The question behind this, is the responsibility of SAAS providers like Google that make their revenues out of User Generated Content.

    Can you make cash on popular UGC without behind responsible for the prejudice of trash?

    Even if Google removed the video in hours that is still hours that can cause pain.

    just saying…

  • http://aloiroberto.wordpress.com Roberto Aloi

    Are the details about the sentence available anywhere online? It would be interesting to read the technical reasons driving the final decision by the judge.

    The sentence goes evidently against every common sense, but if an Italian law is currently binding the responsibility for user uploaded content to the hosting providers (and this just means such a rule should be heavily reviewed) the fault wouldn’t fall on the judge himself. Don’t you think?

  • Candido

    We don’t know how many flags there was. Google said they don’t know too.

    I was in touch via a mailing list with a lawyer who was somehow involved (not directly) with the trial. You can have some info at the Vividown website.

    I’m not telling that the decision is right, btw. I’m just telling we should wait until the judge discloses motivations under his decision (expected in 60/90 days).

    As I wrote before: we don’t know *why* he decided like this, so is pretty soon to complain. We only know the google position, not exactly a

  • Candido

    Expected in 60/90 days.

  • http://aloiroberto.wordpress.com Roberto Aloi

    Then, let’s wait and *judge*.

  • http://www.planetwebfoot.com Social Networking Software

    They did however take it down within hours of being NOTIFIED it was there.

  • http://www.nooksurfer.com NookSurfer

    Wow…the sentence they’ve received is just too extreme for the situation. It would warrant a public announcement/apology of some sort…but jail time?

  • http://twitter.com/mikebutcher Mike Butcher

    I’m glad we’ve cleared that up.

  • http://twitter.com/mikebutcher Mike Butcher

    Exactly Federico, exactly. Four years to have THIS judgement? It’s amazing.

  • http://twitter.com/mikebutcher Mike Butcher

    Brilliant, thanks Marco

  • http://www.guiaslocal.com Guias Local

    What an ignoramus this judge is.

  • http://twitter.com/mikebutcher Mike Butcher

    I actually disagree. Everywhere I go in Europe I meet young people in college or in their 20s who feel a common bond to be “European” and part of modernity. To become as successful as anyone in Silicon Valley. That’s really what I mean. I find entrepreneurs from Italy talking to entrepreneurs from Helsinki or London or wherever, who have the same drive as eachother and in that they share a common bond – and often do business with eachother as a result. Yes we are culturally different but we do, I hope, aspire to the same ideals of equality and democracy and the rule of law.

  • Max AUb

    Mike, I don’t like this article. Your opinion is sacred, but your article is based on a wrong information.

    First, you’d better inform yourself on Italian laws. If you publish something offensive on your website, magazine, tv etc you are “objectively responsible” for that. [I believe this is right, but that's mine].

    Second, we are the country of TVs and mobile video so we all know what youtube is. Even our dusty judges.

    Third, techcrunch is a technology reviews & news website. Please go on like that and don’t become a we-can-say-everyting-oracle. Leave justice where it is, we have plenty (expecially here in Italy, believe me :)

    Thanks
    Max

  • boden

    good comment

    Don’t worry about your English It’s better than most native English speakers.

  • http://www.dariosalvelli.com/2010/02/la-morte-dei-contenuti-generati-dagli-utenti La morte dei contenuti generati dagli utenti | Dario Salvelli’s Blog

    [...] Voglio precisare il mio parere visto che tutto il mondo del web sta dando addosso all’Italia ed al giudice (e si: che abbia un account su Facebook mi pare in questa faccenda irrilevante) quasi [...]

  • Anthony

    Italy is part of the EU. Just about all internet law is the same between the EU and US. I HIGHLY doubt that a major part such as distribution would be different between the two places.

  • http://aloiroberto.wordpress.com Roberto Aloi

    Google official response to the sentence: http://bit.ly/9Kalzh

  • http://www.italiasw.com Matteo

    Mr Mike, you’re wrong. I’m agree that this Judge don’t know what is YouTube. But you don’t know Italian law and it’s false that the incriminated video was immediately removed. Please, inform yourself better, before writing wrong things ;)

  • igniman

    I hope you’re right. Personally, i wish the word word “european” didn’t have so many negative connontations such as “kitsch”, “counterproductive” and “bloated”

  • boden

    Hey now, I resemble that comment… I’m fat, stuck up, small, cowardly and drunk.

  • jetmcquack

    Do you realize these are the same judges who tries to accuse Mr. Berlusconi of corruption?

    Doesn’t begin to sound funny? maybe Mr.Berlusconi is right…..italian judges are ridiculous and they do what they want

  • Viva Italy

    @Candido,

    The judge gets 60/90 days to write his “stupid” judicial opinion, and he thinks Google take too long (2 months or 2 hours, depending on who you ask) to take down a “stupid” video?

    Look, I’m not Italian, but my friends call me a “fake Italian” because I love everything about Italy — I write extensively about movies made by great Italian directors like Federico Fellini, Michelangelo Antonioni, Pier Paolo Pasolini (all the ‘-inis”) and Italian-American directors like Coppola and Scorsese. I don’t think I’ve gone a week without visiting my favorite Italian restaurant whose owner knows me by my first name.

    Here is a reverse analogy for you to contemplate: let’s say an American owner of FIAT gets into an accident and sues FIAT, and an American judge says the FIAT execs are responsible for making bad cars. Believe me, you will be angry too. Not a good analogy (FIAT makes bad cars, Noooo!), but you get what I mean.

    Here in the US, bad judges make bad decisions every single day, and they should be pointed out and condemned. This Italian judge makes a horrible decision and should get no defense from his countrymen.

  • http://plumapapel.com/juez-italiano-culpa-a-ejecutivos-de-google-por-video-de-bullying-en-youtube/ Juez italiano culpa a ejecutivos de Google por video de bullying en YouTube | Pluma Papel

    [...] Link: Serious threat to the web in Italy (Google Blog vía TechCrunch Europe) [...]

  • Lisa Anne

    Youtube is a gigantic mass of combined forces billions and trillions of animated frames. To ban a video and do it in matter of 6 hours is already incredibly fast..

    Too bad, Mr. Italian Judge didn’t saw that point. I say, fight fight fight.. G execs!

    Anyway, as for youtube’s future, I do hope hacks like this one won’t ever happen again. Details: http://bit.ly/youtube-view-count-hack-79-billion

  • hobsons

    What a stupid thing to say.

  • http://www.techwankers.com/2010/02/24/omg-rickroll-removed-from-youtube-white-men-cant-dance/ OMG! Rickroll Removed From YouTube + White Men Can’t Dance | Tech Wankers

    [...] video have been around for years. We suspect its another ‘clean up’ to avoid further legal troubles for the google [...]

  • Geronimo Rattler

    Even agreeing that the judge committed a big mistake, I can’t believe how poor and ignorant the blog post and some of the comments here are, almost crossing the borderline between thinking in stereotypes and racism.

    The author (in the original post he didn’t even know it was Google Video and not ZouTube) of the blog post did not provide any facts about the trial.

    If this is journalism 2.0, then it’s very sad.

  • http://www.italiasw.com Matteo

    You’re right, it’s a ridicolous and horribile sentence. This Judge don’t understand the word Social Web or YouTube but Google didn’t remove immediately the video. For reference http://itasw.com/s

  • Nick

    Well, at least one other source (Evening Standard – http://bit.ly/9oZw53) states that the video was taken down “hours” after Google was notified by the police, which certainly provides a more factual insight than the opinion piece here.

    As a number of posters had apparently called for it to be taken down in the preceding months (with, I have to say, good cause), I think Google might have behaved more responsibly in addressing these concerns at the time or at least should have a more effective method of allowing people to raise concerns or report inappropriate content and an appropriate response.

    I’m sure most of like to feel we believe in freedom of speech on the Net, but I can’t help but think that if the subject of the video was our child, we’d think differently.

  • cris

    Hello everyone, I’m one of the idiots who remained in Italy. Not a bad place I should say, good food and nice people, pizza tarantella etc…all in all I believe there are worse places than this in the world.

    Anyway I try to make this a better place everyday with small actions rather than going elsewhere, this is the place I was born at and the place I love.

    Unfortunately we are governed by people with evident conflict of interest and who control the information, everyday they are making free and independent information harder and harder but thank God we have the internet nowadays.

    Another fascist regime is not possible today because the information through internet cannot be stopped, they are trying to filter everything that falls outside their control (namely TV and traditional press) but are having hard time with social networks and UGC sites.

  • cris

    that’s why current government wants to make justice faster in Italy, the only problem they are not proposing more resources for the judicial system to speed up current trials but simply set a time limit for trials. If your trial is above the time limit you are innocent doesn’t matter what you did! So thousands trials will end up without verdicts including those against our Prime Minister…and they say this is in the name of justice! That’s Italy!

  • The Real Mr Fish

    Wel, the Wall Street Journal doesn’t appear to call the judge ‘stupid’, or claim that he must not know what youtube is.

    I don’t have the full details of the case, but I have studied a little law, and can only assume that in this case the judge found that under Italian law, the prosecution had a case.

    It sets a precedent, but as Italian law is superseded by European law, further appeals could render this judgement null, or at least that would be my understanding.

  • http://liebt.at/ Mica

    What a poor, fact-ignoring Google-fanboyish, biased post. You can do better.

  • Eric

    Anthony, you douche. Obviously Luca is Italian, and English is a second language, likely among three or more that most Europeans speak.

  • http://dangian.net/2010/02/24/magi-means-wise-men-right-2/ “Magi” Means “Wise Men”, Right? « Dan's New Blog

    [...] a comment » Or maybe not. Italian judge Oscar Magi yesterday convicted 3 Google executives — David Drummond, Peter Fleischer and George Reyes — of violating [...]

  • David

    One thing that judges have to consider is what the precedent would be of their rulings. Nobody is considering what the precedent would be had google won. Consider the following scenario:

    I, Mr Sleazebag, realize that Google’s winning exempts providers from virtually all complaints provided that they are reasonably responsive, so I register http://www.hotnudeitaliangirls.com and set up shop. I allow anyone to anonymously upload photos and video of hot nude italian girls (all I require is the user click a box indicating they have the legal right to upload the file). I then charge $20 a month to allow people to view my excellent collection of contributed porn.

    Now Alice broke up with her boyfriend Bob, and Bob uploads those photos to my site. Unless Alice is willing to pay the $20 to check out my site she won’t be able to establish that I have her photos, and therefore won’t be able to make a well formed request that I remove the files, and I can continue to sell them with virtual impunity.

    Anyone can plainly see a reasonable policy goal in requiring that user-generated content be moderated and that all interested parties grant approval for it to be published. Whether or not it is practical or cost-effective for a country to have such a low is another matter entirely.

    Yes that would make YouTube illegal, and would make Google’s behaviour criminal (whether or not the responded in 2 days or 2 months). Its called sovereignty, and its been an established legal principal for centuries.

    PS. It is remarkable to me the degree to which American society has accepted things like YouTube. This opinion piece is consistent with the vast majority of other articles out there. No wonder many older individuals find Facebook/YouTube strange.

  • http://melmeric.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/unbelieavable-verdict/ Unbelieavable verdict « Kenkyuu

    [...] on the same subject and tones TechCrunch, TechDirt, Mashable and [...]

  • markmarks

    By Just trying it out, Google’s latest version of Desktop looks really cool. It’s got some great features and it’s quite easy to use. Problem is even though Google’s Terms and Conditions states how they will never share any of your private information, what’s really stopping them and how do we really know what they are doing with it. Anyway how could we prove they were using our private information if we thought they were? I’m not saying anything new but I got a few ideas from this
    http://ketiva.com/Computers_and_Internet/searching_through_the_google_desktop_route.html

  • isotonic

    Youtube on the iPhone is an ap. The iPad runs all iPhone aps.

  • isotonic

    If the Royal Mail published the hate mail and ran ads next to it, then yes they would be responsible for it.

    Don’t confuse this issue with safe harbour.

  • http://www.ledsigns.cn led display

    it is ridiculous and horrible sentenceLED display
    LED display

  • http://secondomatteo.it/google_vividown/ secondomatteo.it

    caso Google-Vividown io sono d’accordo…

    “la tutela della persona umana deve prevalere sulla logica di impresa” Repubblica – Disabile picchiato e filmato, condannata Google. Gli Usa: “La libertà di internet è vitale” E abbiate pazienza ma io sono d’accordo …

  • Donald

    It’s not the judge the problem. In Italy the judges just apply the law. It’s the legislator’s fault in this case, since there is a legislation hole on what YouTube is. Indeed there have been legislation efforts to apply the TV broadcast law to all user-content hosting websites which is completely wrong.
    The judge’s actions might turn being positive by raising awareness on this completely messed up issue.

  • http://gianmichele.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/google-condannata-per-video-di-bullismo-rassegna-dai-siti-stranieri/ Google condannata per video di bullismo: rassegna dai siti stranieri « GmG’s Weblog

    [...] commenti più accesi sono senza dubbio quelli di TechCrunch Europe, dove si chiede senza mezzi termini di insegnare a Oscar Magi cosa sia una piattaforma di video [...]

  • Daniel, Napoli (Italy)

    the dignity of a person is more important.
    The same dignity that you seem to deny when you do not like medical facilities to all the persons.

  • jmp

    This article whiffs of ideology. Go back to America.

  • CallyWog

    I knew Trotsky was still alive.

  • http://ur-ve.com/2010/02/25/juez-italiano-culpa-a-ejecutivos-de-google-por-video-de-bullying-en-youtube/ UR-VE.COM » Blog Archive » Juez italiano culpa a ejecutivos de Google por video de bullying en YouTube

    [...] Link: Serious threat to the web in Italy (Google Blog vía TechCrunch Europe) [...]

  • http://rss2blogs.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/juez-italiano-culpa-a-ejecutivos-de-google-por-video-de-bullying-en-youtube/ Juez italiano culpa a ejecutivos de Google por video de bullying en YouTube « RSS2Blogs

    [...] Link: Serious threat to the web in Italy (Google Blog vía TechCrunch Europe) [...]

  • Acaeris

    EU Law provides ‘safe harbour’ for content hosting sites such as YouTube. Google are not required to check authorised all uploaded content. As has been pointed out, if this was the case then every website that provides users with the ability to create or upload content would either have to hire content reviewers or stop allowing users that ability.

    In the case of YouTube, 20 hours of video is uploaded every minute from all over the world. To watch that amount of video alone would require YouTube to hire 3600 people all day, every day (holidays included) and that’s without considering the time it would take to check against relevant laws for the entire world.

    I’m sure you must check everything that is submitted to your own website against every single countries laws in case it breaks them. *nods*

  • http://twitter.com/fabiodebe Fabio De Bernardi

    Nobody in Italian’s politics care about treating the internet as a serious thing, let alone the most relevant technology for our future. Therefore they don’t understand it and they often praise themselves for their ignorance.
    The internet doesn’t buy them votes, nor give them money, so they simply don’t care or – worse – they’re against it.
    About the judges, their average age is probably 65, how can we expect them to get YouTube?
    However, this story stinks and it’s so much nonsense for those working in the web space that we can’t even capacitate. For once let’s hope that EU legislation will come to help and not to hear such nonsense anymore for a long time.

  • http://twitter.com/fabiodebe Fabio De Bernardi

    To give you an idea of the nonsense of Italian politicians, here is one of the first comments on the matter from a prominent politician of the current majority (Maurizio Gasparri) who has called the judge’s decision “an exemplary sentence,” explaining that “the dignity of the person as well as his privacy has been trampled apparently for negligence.” Gasparri then said that Google “has not, in fact, watched and worked together to remove violent content in a timely manner.”

    Yes, he called it an exemplary sentence. Well, enough said… *sob*

  • meeka

    Google should not be held responsible for monitoring content but they do have an obligation to do something about it fast if it is pointed out that certain content is inappropriate. If somebody posted some child porn and known to Google, should Google take weeks to take it down or are they obligated to take it down in hours. Google is trying to shirk their responsibility by using the old argument that they are not responsible for the content.

    Reactions: http://bit.ly/google-executives-going-to-jail-right-wrong

  • http://luca.yepa.com/blog/2010/02/25/una-sentenza-assurda/ Una sentenza assurda « Il blog di Luca Venturini

    [...] Tech Crunch: “Qualcuno puo’ spiegare a questo giudice italiano cosa sia Google Video?”. “Perche’ nessuno ha spiegato a questo giudice idiota che il video non e’ stato messo dai dirigenti di Google?” [...]

  • http://ultimosavances.com/internet-amenazada-en-italia-no-hay-libertad-en-la-red/ Internet amenazada: En Italia no hay libertad en la red | Ultimos Avances

    [...] información (Caso YouTube) | ReadWriteWeb, TechCrunch Comentario oficial de Google | Google Official Blog Más información (Causas contra bloggers) | [...]

  • Fabrizio Bosica

    It’s a SHAME…… really, a SHAME! I talk as an Italian and i feel shame for ignorance in my country

  • http://twitter.com/davidmit David

    Perhaps this judge is not stupid, nor ignorant of social media (esp. if it is correct that he is the true owner of a Facebook profile — a fact I would expect TechCrunch to check thoroughly).

    Perhaps he knows of a discrepancy between Italian law and EU law on this issue, thinks the Italian law should evolve, and decided to issue a strong sentence (in accordance with Italian law), but one that carries relatively little consequences for the individuals in question, in order for the case to go to appeal and to put public and political pressure for Italian Internet law to evolve.

    Again, this is speculative, but more facts are needed to really understand this.

  • crazy_haruko

    Hi guys… I wonder what Berlusconi has to do with this. Italian judges are known leftists (as are journalists), they are independent, and spend most of their time going after… Berlusconi. A majority of italians did vote for him (including the undersigned), and hopefully he’ll manage to get Italy out of 65 years of incompetence and corruption. Now, in the specific case under review, Google and YouTube (the world’s biggest copyright infringer) as well as other platforms, tolerate all kind of activities that would be unlawful under most local national laws (nazi stuff, anti-semitic stuff, etc etc). It is inevitable that internet activity will be suject to ever growing attempts from courts and governments to regulate and control what goes on in the web. This is merely one such case. At the end of the day, their size cannot be an excuse: if they profit from the stuff, they need be responsible for it. We’ll have to wait three days to have a video approved when uploaded or some robot that will check its content, and that’s it, no more funny judgments around the world.

  • Fabrizio Bosica

    Well World, can you see and read now what is the average Italian mind? Look up Haruko

  • http://theitalianist.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/the-evil-is-in-the-web/ The Evil is in the Web « The Italianist

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  • http://www.geekspeakblog.net/blog/?p=65 Geek Speak – 2/25/2010 | Geek Speak

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  • http://www.whereisnow.com Marcello Orizi

    1) Ridicolous sentence
    2) Internet is at risk in Italy, not only for this isolated sentence, but generally on information freedom on the net. May it be the EU?
    3) A judge is not a country. Berlusconi is not the Italy. I don’t consider other countries for a single person, otherwise what I have to say about USA with Bush? or Russia with Putin?
    4) Internet power will change the laws. The laws need to be updated to the new information society we are going to fully embrace
    5) Is it reasonable to create a new virtual country for Internet, with all its rights worldwide guaranteed? is it only a dream?

    The “Internet for Peace” started by an initiative of an Italian group of people. May it help you to review your idea of our beatiful country?

  • Luca

    Sorry but if Google really wait too much to remove the video after police intervention.. i think this sentence is right.
    We are not speaking about who is responsable for video.. of course google is not.. but google is responsable for the platform they provide us.. so if police ask to remove, you need to do as fast as you can…

    In US they remove a video that violate a copyright sometimes BEFORE to publish.. so why this check doesn’t work in Italy too???

    I think that google use 2 different way of work.. US and outside US, this because google is an US company.. so they take care 100% of US market, and they are a little lazy about the other side of the ocean..

    If you publish a video from a US cable TV your are immediatly removed.. but if you post a video from Italian pay TV your are allowed…. this happen only because Google doesn’t care about Italian law… this is not correct!!!

  • huv123

    Haha He does not have privacy on his wall :) lol

  • Davide

    Three things
    1) before calling “idiot” a judge, try to understand (you should read the motivation in Italian, as a minimum) the arguments he used. Or is it the case that justice in the US is self-administered, and judges are despised if they say something you – arrogantly from this blog – dislike?

    2) the video was NOT removed hours after posting – it stayed there for two months, generating a fair amount of traffic. Youtube loves traffic, it generates revenues.- This is in the motivation of the decision

    3) if that Down boy was your child, would you really really enjoy this form of “video-democracy” or would you try to defend his dignity from the real idiots – those that made and posted the video?

  • Benny

    I’m Italian and I think this is one of the worst errors Italian Judges did.

    The video had no views for almost 2 months. Then an article came up form a newspaper, and it had an explosion of views, after that article. 7 days after the official request, the video has been removed.

    I think that this is a political judgement, decided to push Italian government to write some laws concerning the web environment. We have no rules, here in Italy, and the main problem is that parents allows their kids in being such monsters…they don’t care of them, they don’t really know who they are.

    PS: The bullied guy hasn’t Down Syndrome. He’s autistic.

  • Benny

    SORRY:

    the video was up 1 month, with almost no views. 7 HOURS after request, it has been removed.

  • Benny

    What we should talk about is RESPONBILITY:
    Google has marginal responsibility, in my opinion. You sign in, you flag ‘I HAVE RIGHTS TO PUBLISH THIS VIDEO’. If you lie, you pay, NOT GOOGLE.

    Google removed that video after being charged by an official request by Italian police.

    The guys bullying, have been punished with social work and they have been rejected at school.

  • http://www.successdegrees.com/education-careers.html inisheer

    Well, if Napster was liable for carrying content that violates copyright, why is Google/YouTube innocent of any responsibility for the content they carry? The only difference is that there are corporations that want to protect the material that was on Napster.

  • vicky

    crazy law !!

  • http://www.davidbreaker.com/?p=706 Can someone tell this Italian Judge what Google Video is? And Sunny Hundal, Bloggerheads and Malcolm Coles too. | David Breaker – David T Breaker's blog

    [...] daily must-read TechCrunch blog had this interesting story a few days ago of how an Italian court yesterday convicted two current [...]

  • Nate

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  • Fabrizio Bosica
  • http://www.hackgeek.it/mi-vergogno-di-essere-italiano/ MI VERGOGNO DI ESSERE ITALIANO | HackGeek

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  • http://pniq.co.uk/2010/03/03/the-digital-week-15/ The Digital Week «

    [...] to TechCrunch, Google removed the happyslapping video within hours of being notified. So what exactly did the three convicted Googlers do wrong? They allowed the web community to [...]

  • http://www.google2.com glasnost

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  • http://echte-erotikkontakte.net freddy m.

    how sad man

  • http://echte-erotikkontakte.net freddy m.

    Video removed :(

  • http://echte-erotikkontakte.net/callgirls freddy m.

    Yes indeed . And by the Way. The video romeved

  • http://energie-und-umwelt.at Energie Infos

    MAn please tell him . His such an idiot

  • http://energie-und-umwelt.at Roy

    Removed :(

  • JoH

    oops…I think this article contains some misinformation:
    The Google execs were convicted because the judge thought Google has an obligation to inform those who submit videos about their legal obligations better than they were at the time the vid was uploaded…not because the judge thought the Google execs may have been responsible for uploading the video or out of some fundamental misunderstanding of what You Tube/Google Video is.
    The judge also was interpreting Italian law responsibly (and clearly wasn’t taking all his evidence from a blog post). The execs were given suspended sentences…this was a wake up call and an acknowledgement that some harm was caused by practices Google can remedy.
    Free speech is not a free-for-all, IMO. I’m not so bothered by this decision.

  • http://www.bauchfettweg.net Bauchfett weg

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  • Rürup Rente

    extreme situation!

  • http://faustfick-brutal.net faust

    Yes its ture .

    italy is not europe

  • http://www.bjdproductions.com/blog/2010/10/italy-orders-google-to-clearly-label-street-view-cars-advertise-routes/ Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes | BJD Productions Blog

    [...] with the far more systematic and predictable Street View operations. Considering their handling of that other incident, it seems that perhaps the Italian government is simply not equipped to deal progressively with the [...]

  • http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/10/25/italy-orders-google-to-clearly-label-street-view-cars-advertise-routes/ Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes

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  • http://jetlib.com/news/2010/10/25/italy-orders-google-to-clearly-label-street-view-cars-advertise-routes/ Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes | JetLib News

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  • http://www.startupblock.com/?p=8739 Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes : startupblock.com

    [...] with the far more systematic and predictable Street View operations. Considering their handling of that other incident, it seems that perhaps the Italian government is simply not equipped to deal progressively with the [...]

  • http://properlyonline.com/clusterfretful2/?p=304 Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes | properlyonline.com

    [...] with the far more systematic and predictable Street View operations. Considering their handling of that other incident, it seems that perhaps the Italian government is simply not equipped to deal progressively with the [...]

  • http://productsconsumerreport.com/?p=664 Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes

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  • http://howardsillick.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/italy-orders-google-to-clearly-label-street-view-cars-advertise-routes/ Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes « Howardsillick's Blog

    [...] with the far more systematic and predictable Street View operations. Considering their handling of that other incident, it seems that perhaps the Italian government is simply not equipped to deal progressively with the [...]

  • http://linksenergizer.info/links3/italy-orders-google-to-clearly-label-street-view-cars-advertise-routes/ Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes | High Tech News

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  • http://trendoloji.com/?p=70 Italya Siparişler, Açıkçası Street View Otomobil Şirketi için Google Yolları Reklam

    [...] with the far more systematic and predictable Street View operations. Considering their handling of that other incident, it seems that perhaps the Italian government is simply not equipped to deal progressively with the [...]

  • http://theresasproule.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/italy-orders-google-to-clearly-label-street-view-cars-advertise-routes/ Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes | Theresasproule's Blog

    [...] with the far more systematic and predictable Street View operations. Considering their handling of that other incident, it seems that perhaps the Italian government is simply not equipped to deal progressively with the [...]

  • http://techshadez.ishadez.com/italy-orders-google-to-clearly-label-street-view-cars-advertise-routes/ Italy Orders Google To Clearly Label Street View Cars, Advertise Routes | TechShadez

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  • http://twitter.com/PollPolPolls Apollo

    i find this part quite intriguing At a time when European countries are weighed down by regulation and stupid rulings like this one, especially during a period of huge economic upheaval, it is not enough to stand by and watch travesties like this go by. I will dig in for more information 

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    Do the young people of Italy and the rest of Europe, so many of whom
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